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#1 Conman2012

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 11:58 PM

Is it appropriate for a OA Lodge to have a flag to fly at events. Would the Appropriate flag be the special events flag?
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#2 CalicoPenn

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Posted 13 December 2015 - 06:38 PM

Welcome to the forums!

 

As long as the Council's Supreme Chief of the Fire (Scout Executive) says it is, it's appropriate. In fact. I think that's a good idea.


Edited by CalicoPenn, 13 December 2015 - 06:42 PM.

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#3 SeattlePioneer

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Posted 14 December 2015 - 05:14 PM

<<I think that's a good idea.>> 

 

 

I agree!  I've never seen an OA flag.  Please post a picture of your flag after you make it.

 

I think that would be a great example to set and take with you when doing unit elections.

 

 

(Personally,  I think OA would be miles ahead if it would dump all the Indian stuff.)


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#4 SSScout

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Posted 14 December 2015 - 07:24 PM

""(Personally,  I think OA would be miles ahead if it would dump all the Indian stuff.)""

 

And replace it with what?


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#5 Stosh

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Posted 14 December 2015 - 10:04 PM

""(Personally,  I think OA would be miles ahead if it would dump all the Indian stuff.)""

 

And replace it with what?

Leadership in service to others.  One doesn't need a costume or dance to do that.  Every service project on the district or council level for the past 4 years has been touted by the DE's.  One would think it should fall to the OA boys, but they're totally non-functioning.  It wouldn't take much to pick up the lead on any of these.....


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#6 qwazse

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Posted 15 December 2015 - 09:44 AM

I can lead and serve without setting aside time to enjoy costumes and dance ... but somehow it doesn't come out the same as what's done by these boys who've feebly hearkened back on Native American culture.

 

So, if the flag is somehow substituting for a little of that, then I'd say keep it in the closet. If it's reminding boys of the dances they've seen, fly it proudly.


Edited by qwazse, 15 December 2015 - 09:45 AM.

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#7 Stosh

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Posted 15 December 2015 - 01:47 PM

Leadership in service to others.  One doesn't need a costume or dance to do that.  Every service project on the district or council level for the past 4 years has been touted by the DE's.  One would think it should fall to the OA boys, but they're totally non-functioning.  It wouldn't take much to pick up the lead on any of these.....

 

Sure would be interesting to have the person who negatively dinged this comment provide their rationale.  Unless my memory has gone bad in the past few years, it was always my recollection that OA stood for Leadership in Service to Others, and personally I don't believe it becomes necessary to have a costume or dance to be able to do that.  But it does leave the door open for questions in my book.

 

While it is true that Council and District personnel are the only ones in our council promoting service projects on a distrtict and council level, I find it somewhat "Not taking care of your OA boys" by not stepping up and picking up the tab on such efforts.  Instead we have OA Wingdings, OA Conclaves, OA Elections, OA Call Outs, OA Cub Arrow of Light Ceremonies, OA Cross-over Ceremonies, but NO OA SERVICE PROJECTS.

 

Instead the closest thing we have to any service from our OA Lodge is the OA Ordeal where a couple of the OA boys take the newbie ordeal members out to either set up summer camp in the spring or take it down in the fall.  Well much to the shagrine of the membership of the council, the Council staff and DE's along with the Camp Staff have been putting out an all-call for help on even this process for the past 3 years. 

 

If this be the case why are the Lodge officers still getting their Vigil sashes?  How is it that percieved as they are taking care of their boys?

 

If I get a ding for pointing out that my OA Lodge is non-functional, then sometimes telling the truth isn't a good idea.

 

Dump the costumes and get blue jeans. T-shirt and a pair of gloves and start asking "What can I do to help!"  That is the first step in servant leadership.  Others will follow OA leaders like this.  Our council is still waiting.

 

On the other hand the Indian dress and dance is a nice icing-on-the-cake touch, but eating a steady diet of frosting isn't healthy.


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Stosh

 

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#8 jpstodwftexas

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Posted 15 December 2015 - 04:38 PM

OA primary principal  has been "Brotherhood, cheerfulness, and service" not "Leadership in service."


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#9 Stosh

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Posted 15 December 2015 - 05:31 PM

OA primary principal  has been "Brotherhood, cheerfulness, and service" not "Leadership in service."

 

In that case, they can continue on their present course of action.  If boys find brotherhood, cheerfulness and service in their own troops, why bother with OA?  One would think in order to perpetuate success, they might want to get out front and show the way (leadership).


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#10 qwazse

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Posted 15 December 2015 - 09:28 PM

Sure would be interesting to have the person who negatively dinged this comment provide their rationale.
  ....

Dump the costumes and get blue jeans. T-shirt and a pair of gloves and start asking "What can I do to help!"  That is the first step in servant leadership.  Others will follow OA leaders like this.  Our council is still waiting.
 
On the other hand the Indian dress and dance is a nice icing-on-the-cake touch, but eating a steady diet of frosting isn't healthy.

Sorry to hurt your feelings. Your gripe has nothing to do with fellas who like to honor neighboring tribes. You don't see your arrowmen doing much. Well, I can't imagine them partying less will make them serve more.
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#11 Stosh

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Posted 15 December 2015 - 09:48 PM

Sorry to hurt your feelings. Your gripe has nothing to do with fellas who like to honor neighboring tribes. You don't see your arrowmen doing much. Well, I can't imagine them partying less will make them serve more.

 

Well, nothing like riding the downward spiral all the way to the bottom.  One would think that there would be a few arrowmen who would take seriously the honor for neighboring tribes that would get them off their butts and do something, anything for that matter.

 

If one isn't going to honor them, then dump the program so as to not embarrass them.  So, in fact, my "gripe" has everything to do with fellas who like to honor neighboring tribes. 


Edited by Stosh, 15 December 2015 - 10:05 PM.

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#12 SeattlePioneer

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Posted 16 December 2015 - 03:39 PM

A couple of years ago,  I considered reactivating my OA membership and getting involved with the district Lodge.  I attended one of their meetings,  which was all about Indian related stuff.  They are welcome to that if they like it,  but I'm not spending my time on it.

 

I'll bet I'm not alone with that evaluation of the program.

 

I guess we'll have to wait for Indian tribes to go on the warpath against OA and BSA before we get changes made.


Edited by SeattlePioneer, 16 December 2015 - 03:40 PM.

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#13 Stosh

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Posted 16 December 2015 - 09:01 PM

A couple of years ago,  I considered reactivating my OA membership and getting involved with the district Lodge.  I attended one of their meetings,  which was all about Indian related stuff.  They are welcome to that if they like it,  but I'm not spending my time on it.

 

I'll bet I'm not alone with that evaluation of the program.

 

I guess we'll have to wait for Indian tribes to go on the warpath against OA and BSA before we get changes made.

 

It's just a matter of time. 


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Stosh

 

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#14 SSScout

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 11:43 AM

Depends on the tribe.  

I am not any where near Native American and not active (physically) OA, but my membership dues are paid.  The local tribe(s) here'bouts like the interest in their tribal history and culture and cultivate it when the OA or any Scout unit approaches them about it.   Our District had a fall Camporee at the Piscataway Museum awhile back, and even though  it was more than an hour drive to the site, the boys had a good time.

The indian cultural connection to OA is tenuous, to be sure, but the connection for honor and service is very useful .  And if it helps our Scouts to realize local history , so much the better.


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#15 Stosh

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 12:21 PM

A lot of the issue is local around here.  Our state along with all the other PC people out there have required our school mascots to change away from Indian references.  One of our schools had Red Raider with an Indian on horseback, and had to change.  They changed the logo to a knight on horseback.  A lot of people didn't that that was enough,   Yet another local school has Vikings as their mascot and the Norwegians don't seem to be too terribly upset because after all the vikings were white people and don't count.

 

The real kicker was the school in our region which was located just outside of an old Indian reservation that the vast majority of students were ethnic Indians.  They too were told dump their mascot and logo.  That didn't go over very well.

 

Our OA has been in touch with our local tribes and do their best, but over the years they have only functioned in an advisory capacity.  The boys and their dancing and ceremonies are not monitored by the tribes for respectability and/or authenticity. 

 

Maybe there are lodges out there that have close ties to the local tribes, but in my limited experience, I haven't seen it.


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#16 Stosh

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 12:23 PM

A lot of the issue is local around here.  Our state along with all the other PC people out there have required our school mascots to change away from Indian references.  One of our schools had Red Raider with an Indian on horseback, and had to change.  They changed the logo to a knight on horseback.  A lot of people didn't that that was enough,   Yet another local school has Vikings as their mascot and the Norwegians don't seem to be too terribly upset because after all the vikings were white people and don't count.

 

The real kicker was the school in our region which was located just outside of an old Indian reservation that the vast majority of students were ethnic Indians.  They too were told dump their mascot and logo.  That didn't go over very well.

 

Our OA has been in touch with our local tribes and do their best, but over the years they have only functioned in an advisory capacity.  The boys and their dancing and ceremonies are not monitored by the tribes for respectability and/or authenticity. 

 

Maybe there are lodges out there that have close ties to the local tribes, but in my limited experience, I haven't seen it.


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Stosh

 

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#17 SeattlePioneer

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 03:33 PM

<<A lot of the issue is local around here.  Our state along with all the other PC people out there have required our school mascots to change away from Indian references.  One of our schools had Red Raider with an Indian on horseback, and had to change.  They changed the logo to a knight on horseback.  A lot of people didn't that that was enough,   Yet another local school has Vikings as their mascot and the Norwegians don't seem to be too terribly upset because after all the vikings were white people and don't count.

 

The real kicker was the school in our region which was located just outside of an old Indian reservation that the vast majority of students were ethnic Indians.  They too were told dump their mascot and logo.  That didn't go over very well.>> 

 

 

Heh, heh!  These are amusing stories!

 

When some Italians move into the area,  perhaps they will complain that COLUMBUS should be recognized,  rather than Vikings!  That would be a good donnybrook!

 

And it's amusing that Indians who WANT to use Indians symbols are prevented from doing so by the PC Police.

 

Good examples of how politics corrupts culture.


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#18 Stosh

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 04:34 PM

Considering Columbus sailed under a Spanish flag, it would prove to be interesting.

 

With overwhelming evidence that Columbus was a Johnny-come-lately, they are now finding that the Welsh got here earlier than Columbus and the Irish (Celts) were even earlier than the whole bunch. :)

 

After all, the oldest known Clovis point was not found on the west coast, but on the East Coast, our history books are getting obsolete about as fast as our geography books.


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Stosh

 

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#19 Conman2012

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 11:39 PM

I would like to thank calicoPenn and seattle Pioneer for comment on my thread and the rest of you for hijacking it.
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#20 CalicoPenn

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Posted 18 December 2015 - 12:36 PM

I would like to thank calicoPenn and seattle Pioneer for comment on my thread and the rest of you for hijacking it.

 

Hijacking threads - that's how we roll around here - never take it personally :D

 

Welcome again to the forums!  stick around and hijack a few threads along with us :laugh:


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