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#41 JustThinking

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 11:42 AM

I don't try.  Using that premise, there are a lot of organizations I could try. 

 

I have be able to believe in what I am part of and so far I haven't seen anything that OA, at least my area, has offered me to believe in.  If that is wrong, then OA is doing a very poor job getting the word out. 


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#42 JasonG172

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 12:48 PM

I don't try.  Using that premise, there are a lot of organizations I could try. 

 

I have be able to believe in what I am part of and so far I haven't seen anything that OA, at least my area, has offered me to believe in.  If that is wrong, then OA is doing a very poor job getting the word out. 

 

Sounds like you have made your mind up, so stop beating your chest and lets just move along.  I don't believe anyone where is trying to convince you.  My lodge, while it has its down sides, does a lot of community and camp project.  Cheerful Service


Edited by JasonG172, 11 December 2015 - 12:48 PM.

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#43 koolaidman

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 01:12 PM

@koolaidman

 

Look at what?

http://www.oa-bsa.or...ections2015.pdf

 

Sorry hyperlink paste didn't go through first time.


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#44 Krampus

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 02:16 PM

http://www.oa-bsa.or...ections2015.pdf

 

Sorry hyperlink paste didn't go through first time.

 

Here's my problem: Page 36 asks all these questions that are additional requirements to get elected to the OA. They have nothing to do with camping. They have nothing to do with service. All those questions from "Member C" ask questions unrelated to the requirements. If I were SM and had to judge who was eligible based on all those questions I would probably nominate 1-3 scouts instead of 8-10.

 

Worse: Most scouts I have seen make OA meet few of those requirements asked by "Member C". I'm not talking just my unit. I am talking about the current generation of scouts I have seen over the last 12-15 years.

 

If OA wants to live up to all those ideals spouted out by "Member C", they should be requirements listed as part of being eligible for OA membership, from which the SM can use as quantitative guidelines for accepting or rejecting a scout for OA.

Lastly, these should be on-going criteria for staying in OA. Many scouts and adults I see around scouting wear the flap, but do not walk the walk outlined on page 36.


Edited by Krampus, 11 December 2015 - 02:17 PM.

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#45 Oldscout448

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Posted 12 December 2015 - 07:46 AM

Krampus, I agree.

 

The OA is now just a club.

 

If those bitter old cats really cared about the OA, they'd try to bring back the old spirit of the organization, and not the patch collecting clique it has become.   The obligation meant something, and there are times I still think about certain phrases from it. 

 

The OA is just another example of how something can be diluted to the point where the original meaning is lost.   I think there may have been some resentment in the past about the ordeal and other aspects that did not favor "participation trophy" syndrome.  So the BSA decided to let some air of the tires.   However, it is interesting that the same is not true with the Eagle rank...heck, you'd think making Eagle was akin to a coronation these days.   The BSA has no problem with the exclusiveness of that part of the organization.

Rat, thats why I am still active,  trying to keep the fire burning, sometimes it feels like shoveling water upstream, but gotta do what I can.

Oldscout.  ps. I don't bother with patches,  if I have not earned it, I don't want it


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#46 RememberSchiff

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Posted 12 December 2015 - 09:03 AM

A 43 page guide for OA elections? Was this guide written in Florida?

 

I did not see a step where the "eligible" scouts were asked if they were interested in joining. Back in the day, we (my troop) was courteous enough to ask scouts rather than pressure them in front of troop to join.

 

And in this day and age, parent notification and permission should be obtained before the elections.

 

My $0.02,


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#47 qwazse

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Posted 13 December 2015 - 05:05 PM

I don't try.  Using that premise, there are a lot of organizations I could try. 

 

I have be able to believe in what I am part of and so far I haven't seen anything that OA, at least my area, has offered me to believe in.  If that is wrong, then OA is doing a very poor job getting the word out. 

I just mentioned on Byran's blog that the best way to inspire a leader to take woodbadge is for someone who as earned it to come along-side him and selflessly lend a hand in his unit.

 

That's clearly what you need to see happen in your unit with regard to arrowmen.

  • If the scout you two admire the most has that lodge flap, ask him what his lodge may have to do with him being such a great scout. If what he says sounds like something you want go for it!
  • If the scout you admire the most is not an arrowman, then ask him what has helped him be a great scout. Seek that for you and your son.

Everyone else, take note. Your actions promote!


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#48 baggss

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Posted 15 December 2015 - 10:14 PM

camping isnt a requirement for adults, least not around here. order of the error is more like it.
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#49 Krampus

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Posted 16 December 2015 - 06:17 AM

camping isnt a requirement for adults, least not around here. order of the error is more like it.

I was under the impression for adult to qualify they had to meet the same requirements as scouts.

http://www.oa-bsa.or...p-and-induction

Edited by Krampus, 16 December 2015 - 06:20 AM.

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#50 perdidochas

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Posted 16 December 2015 - 05:11 PM

@desertrat77

 

BSA and scout parents don't see the Eagle being watered down any, but there aren't many on the forum that argue with me about the increasing numbers of Parlor/Paper Eagles out there today.  The prestige is gone, BSA just hasn't accepted it as of yet.  Heck, simply being a Boy Scout isn't the prestige it once was 50 years ago. 

I disagree about Eagle not being as prestigious as it was, at least outside of scouting circles. When I'm talking about my sons having become Eagles (my youngest had his ECOH this past weekend), everybody outside of Scouting still sees it as a good thing, and a great honor.  I also disagree that being a Boy Scout is less prestigious than it was--it used to be just something that everybody did for a few years, now it's a bit less common.


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#51 perdidochas

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Posted 16 December 2015 - 05:14 PM

I was under the impression for adult to qualify they had to meet the same requirements as scouts.

http://www.oa-bsa.or...p-and-induction

 

Well, at least in my Council it is. Now, I don't think an election is necessary, but the camping nights (and the long term camp requirement) definitely are.  When the previous SM tried to recruit me into OA, he mentioned that I would have to do a long term camp to qualify. I have since done that (I like the idea that I could be in OA, but I really don't have the time for playing Native American)).  My boys love it (my oldest was vice chapter chief last year, and has some kind of position in the Lodge cabinet now) and it gives them a chance to Scout without me. 


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#52 Krampus

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Posted 16 December 2015 - 07:26 PM

Well, at least in my Council it is. Now, I don't think an election is necessary, but the camping nights (and the long term camp requirement) definitely are.  When the previous SM tried to recruit me into OA, he mentioned that I would have to do a long term camp to qualify. I have since done that (I like the idea that I could be in OA, but I really don't have the time for playing Native American)).  My boys love it (my oldest was vice chapter chief last year, and has some kind of position in the Lodge cabinet now) and it gives them a chance to Scout without me. 

According to that document I linked, that's the national guidelines; hence why I thought this was a nation-wide standard and not something folks could pick and choose to use. ;)


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#53 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 16 December 2015 - 10:11 PM

Unless it's district or council level folks, the troop or team committee selects the adult. The committee should be following the rules.  But I've seen SMs allow folks to be candidates for election when they didn't meet the camping requirement. So I guess committees would too.

 

Unfortunately there is no check as a "Scout is Trustworthy...."


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"Train 'em. Trust 'em. LET THEM LEAD!" William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt


#54 jpstodwftexas

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 05:40 PM

Funny thing about OA and Boy Scouts these days.....All the Parents who are Registered as a Boy Scout Leader...

Growin Up Most Parents were not involved in Scouting at all..

 

Yes Many Lodges are not active as much..just as Councils are not the same.

The Council and the OA Lodge here are nothing Compared to what they were in the Late 1970's and the early 1980's...

The Council has No First Aid Meets, No Scout-o-rammas, Sold off Best Camp, Has spent very little on the only Camp, thinks of it as a "first year only Camp"..

The Lodge does not have fellowships, No Campouts, Mainly Sash and Dash.. Ordeals no longer have Spades and Dominoes Championships..The Ordeals are 1 Nighters..We use to Have Vigil Friday and Crackerbarrel, Brotherhood Saturday and Canidate Ordeal, and wrap it up with New Ordeal on Sunday..

 

Around here it is Woodbadgers that is pushed now days..Can't do nothing if your Not Woodbadge.


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#55 Stosh

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Posted 07 January 2016 - 08:04 AM

Got my first OA newsletter in 10+ years this past week.  It included a 4 page printout on the OA elections, too.  Must be hurting for members.


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#56 John-in-KC

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Posted 07 January 2016 - 02:15 PM

WRT adult selection for membership, from the page @Krampus posted...

 

Adults (age 21 or older) who are registered in the BSA and meet the camping requirements may be selected following nomination to the lodge adult selection committee.  Adult selection is based on their ability to perform the necessary functions to help the Order fulfill its purpose, and is not for recognition of service, including current or prior positions. Selected adults must be an asset to the Order because of demonstrated abilities, and must provide a positive example for the growth and development of the youth members of the lodge.

 

Emphases are mine.

 

That's what the unit should be told by the Election Team adult rep, that's what the Lodge should use as their standard.

I was a youth member from a 1970 Ordeal, I don't have to worry.  Oh, yes, I still remember my tapout, and I still remember losing a bead for breaking the silence (we had four opportunities).


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#57 jpstodwftexas

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Posted 17 January 2016 - 08:56 PM

Record Setting at NOAC? 

Well It was the 100th Anniversary...They got all Kinds of SWAG that no one else could get. and being Sold all over by the lucky one who could attend....The Attendance set records, sure it did...Lets see how much attendance drops at the Next one. Lets see if we see 101St NOAC Cookies for sale on EBAY like we are seeing the 100th Cookies. There won't be a 101th Special Addition Sash, that only attendees get. There Won't be a 101st Patch you get to wear on your Sash..I doubt that Lodges won't be turning away Attendees at the Next one...For many Lodges it will be back to the Normal trying to get people to go. 


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#58 jpstodwftexas

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Posted 17 January 2016 - 08:59 PM

Got my first OA newsletter in 10+ years this past week.  It included a 4 page printout on the OA elections, too.  Must be hurting for members.

Wow what are those...My old lodge doesn't have a newsletter, it does not have a website, not even a Facebook page.....

No Announcements about OA on Council's Site, No Mention about that "Centurian" Award for last year...No Lodge history book which was suppose to have been ready for NOAC....


Edited by jpstodwftexas, 17 January 2016 - 09:01 PM.

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#59 k3egl

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 05:50 PM

Gentlemen and Ladies,

 

I want to personally apologize for the difficulties you have described. I have been a member of the OA since 1979 and in 4 different councils and lodges. While I have experienced some variations in both election scripts and call out ceremonies, I have never experienced the level of incompetence you have mentioned.

 

The organization has evolved over the years and after much reflection I believe all of the changes have been for the better. That  some folks have strayed so far is alarming and require some intervention from the professional staff. Please ask them to become involved.


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#60 Stosh

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 06:29 PM

@k3egl  Welcome to the forum and for sure you don't need to personally apologize for others dropping the ball.  Just like any other large bureaucracy, there are some areas that are more efficient and meeting the goals and objectives of the organization than others.  I guess under that premise there will be some who end up with the short straw.  I don't mind those that try, but in my area, not much of an effort is being put forth.  Hopefully it is just a low spot and it'll cycle back some day.


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)





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