American remembrance traditions

[Cambridgeskip 658]

So.... on 12 November my troop will be having its annual remembrance night, which we always have on the nearest troop night to 11 November (the traditional remembrance day in the UK).

 

This year we will be visiting the US military cemetery on the edge of Cambridge. More about it here.

 

As a group remembrance is something we take quite seriously. During the Second World War our group was home of Wood Smoke Rover Scout Crew. The 18-25 age range meant an inevitable appalling casualty rate with 7 young men killed, all of them airmen.

 

While we will be including many of our own traditions as part of the evening eg laying a wreath of poppies and a reading the 4th verse of the poem For The Fallen we would also like to include some American traditions. And would of course like to avoid doing anything that might be considered disrespectful.

 

Any pointers for what we might include or avoid?

[cyclops 55]

A few years ago I was asked to give a technical presentation to a lay public group. It happened to be scheduled for the evening of 11/11. So I took the opportunity to work into the presentation at the beginning a remembrance honoring all veterans and service members. The response was startling. The audience reacted as if they had been completely unaware of both the significance of the date and what it commemorated as well as what seemed to be discomfort that I would take that opportunity to honor those who had given (or were giving) service to our country.

So I just went on into the scheduled presentation.

[walk in the woods 888]

The playing of Taps would be appropriate. 

Edited October 7, 2015 by walk in the woods

[Stosh 3452]

It is no longer a tradition in America like it used to be when I was a kid, but at 11:00 am on November 11th we would all stand in our classrooms by our desks, face east (towards Europe) and silently remember the fallen veterans for one minute.  To this day I still do it.  Because Americans came into the war late (WW I) they did not feel the impact that Europe did.  Then there's the overshadowing of the 11/11 @ 11:00 am with the onset of WW II.  Yes, WW II was pretty bad, but nothing compared to WW I where single battle casualties were numbered in the hundreds of thousands.  D-Day (10,000 Allied casualties, 4,000-9,000 German estimate) was a skirmish compared to ... well name one of your favorites Verdun (714,231 casualties), Sommes (Allied 623,907, German 465,000),   The scars of such warfare still marking the terrain 100 years later.

 

If your boys go there and stand for one minute just to contemplate the magnitude of this human disaster, it will encompass an appropriate amount of respect from every American veteran buried there.  They died in a foreign land so others would know freedom as well.

[Fehler 118]

If you want a typical American Memorial Day or Veterans Day tribute, have a used car sale.

[CalicoPenn 729]

November 11 is known as Veteran's Day in the US.  It got it's start after WW1 as Armistice Day but after the Korean War, was changed to Veteran's Day to honor the veterans, both living and dead, of all wars that the US have been involved with.  Still later, not by any official act but by silent societal agreement, Veteran's Day has become a day to honor all veteran's, living or dead, who ever served in the five US Armed Forces and their reserve units, as well as state guard units, in war or peacetime.  We still "celebrate" it on November 11 (after a short period of time when it would be celebrated on the nearest Monday).  Now we can all try to come up with some kind of lofty traditions but the truth is that for most people in the US, Veteran's Day is a day that the mail is not delivered, that most government offices are closed, that some (fewer than ever) banks close, that people go to work (except the aformentioned government employees) as if it's just another day, and where mattresses go on sale.  Some cities and towns throughout the US might do a short ceremony at the municipal flagpole with the VFW and American Legion present, but for most people, including many veterans, we aren't even aware that it is Veteran's Day unless we witness someone saying Happy Veteran's Day to a veteran, or if someone says it to us if we're a veteran.  Traditions in the US?  Nothing that's really universal. 

 

We have other day's of rememberance as well - Memorial Day started as a day to honor the dead of the Civil War and is now celebrated as a day to honor all of our war dead.  This actually has some tradition to it starting with placing US Flags at the gravestones of veterans.  Many Scout Troops and Cub Scout Packs join in on this activity, especially where there are national veteran's cemetaries close by with a lot of graves to cover.  There is often a big ceremony at the municipal flag pole following a parade, or at least some speechifying.  Unfortunately, it has also become a 3-day weekend to memorialize the "start" of "summer" so big traditions also include the ceremonial lighting of the first official BBQ Grill of the summer, to be christened with hamburgers, hot dogs and bratwurst, heading out to a state park to camp with hundreds of your closest strangers, and the wearing of red, white and blue clothes.  Oh, and mattresses will be on sale again. 

 

Flag Day is meant as a rememberance of the Stars and Stripes - it means mattress sales again (to catch those folks that didn't buy them when they were on sale just 14 or so days earlier on Memorial Day weekend) and people putting up their US Flags for the day (if people think to do so). 

 

Independence Day, about 20 days later, is a rememberance of our little tiff with a former King of England that resulted in the US becoming independent - traditions include parades, carnivals, festivals, fireworks, flags put out along residential curblines by realtors, red, white & blue clothing, grilling of hamburgers, hot dogs, and bratwurst, and in lucky parts of the US, the first sweet corn of the year, heading out to state parks to camp and more fireworks.  Oh - and some more mattress sales.

 

Labor Day, at the end of August, is a rememberance of the labor movement where we celebrate 40 hour work weeks and a couple of weeks of vacation (if we're lucky) with another 3-day weekend, celebrating the ceremonial end of summer by grilling (yep, you guessed it - burgers, dogs and brats), some more festivals, maybe a parade or two, heading out to state parks, pulling boats from the water, closing up the summer cottage, and....shopping for mattresses again.

 

President's Day - where we remember our Presidents - it used to be we remembered the brthdays of Washington and Lincoln, now we just remember all of the Presidents - and this time no one pretends President's Day is for anything other than.....mattress sales.

 

So tradition wise, this is a country whose most widespread traditions around our remembress days are mattress sales - I wouldn't worry about insulting us.

[Krampus 696]

Our unit invites our flag program sponsor every Veteran's Day to discuss the role of being a US Citizen. This is done to address a few requirements for various ranks and badges, but more so to honor the veterans group which sponsors our program. These kids definitely know what 11/11 is about and the vets that come and talk love the opportunity to remind them that freedom is not free.

[Cambridgeskip 658]

Thanks for the thoughts chaps, we'll see what we can come up with.

 

Interesting to see that things moved away from 11 November for you where as for us there's been a move back towards it. For many years now the Sunday closest to 11 November has been used but in recent year there has been more of a tendency for schools and work places to have a 1 minute silence on 11 November itself.

 

One year we had the cub leader from our neighbouring group come down. He was an army engineer during the first gulf war and spent many weeks following the war clearing minefields in Kuwait. A very interesting man to talk to.

[Rick_in_CA 401]

It is no longer a tradition in America like it used to be when I was a kid, but at 11:00 am on November 11th we would all stand in our classrooms by our desks, face east (towards Europe) and silently remember the fallen veterans for one minute.  To this day I still do it.  Because Americans came into the war late (WW I) they did not feel the impact that Europe did.

@@Stosh is correct. The US forces only fought for a few months in WW1 while the rest of Europe fought for years (total US military dead in WW1 is something like 53,000). Therefor it doesn't weigh in the public conscience as heavily as WW2 does.

 

Then there's the overshadowing of the 11/11 @ 11:00 am with the onset of WW II.  Yes, WW II was pretty bad, but nothing compared to WW I where single battle casualties were numbered in the hundreds of thousands.  D-Day (10,000 Allied casualties, 4,000-9,000 German estimate) was a skirmish compared to ... well name one of your favorites Verdun (714,231 casualties), Sommes (Allied 623,907, German 465,000),   The scars of such warfare still marking the terrain 100 years later.

While it's true that WW1 was very bad, WW2 was worse (though different). You have to be careful when comparing "battles". The Battles of Verdun lasted for almost ten months. The Battle of the Somme was almost six months long. For WW2 you have to look at long duration battles for a better comparison. Such as: the Battle of Stalingrad (5 months long, 2 million casualties), Allied advance from Paris to the Rhine (6 months, 450,000 casualties), the Battle of the Bulge (6 weeks, 170,000 casualties), or the Siege of Leningrad (over 2 years long, 4 million casualties). Germany had almost twice as many military casualties in WW2 as it did in WW1. For the UK however it was reversed, they had significantly more casualties in WW1 than in WW2. Total worldwide deaths from all causes during WW1 is around 18 million. For WW2 that number is around 60 million. WW2 was fought on a scale that the world had never seen (and God willing, will never see again).

 

If your boys go there and stand for one minute just to contemplate the magnitude of this human disaster, it will encompass an appropriate amount of respect from every American veteran buried there.  They died in a foreign land so others would know freedom as well.

I agree with this. Also as others have suggested, playing taps would be traditional.

[Cambridgeskip 658]

I agree with this. Also as others have suggested, playing taps would be traditional.

 

I won't promise that one! I take the Yoda approach to things like this. ie Do. or Do not. If they are going to sing they need to make sure they find time to practice and get it right. Taps isn't something we are familiar with!

 

Stosh, on 07 Oct 2015 - 8:03 PM, said:

If your boys go there and stand for one minute just to contemplate the magnitude of this human disaster, it will encompass an appropriate amount of respect from every American veteran buried there.  They died in a foreign land so others would know freedom as well.

 

Absolutely, that will be a key part of it. (Although don't forget my girls as well!)

 

A few years ago we took some scouts to Amsterdam to visit the grave of one our leaders killed in the Second World War and buried in a Commonwealth cemetery there. A long weekend in Amsterdam was obviously an exciting thing for them but when we got to the cemetery itself the noise level dropped very quickly indeed. When they found the grave of a 16 year old you could have heard a pin drop.

 

The photo attached is from that trip. It was actually picked up by our national HQ and was used in some of their publicity at the time. It is not posed. It was simply a quick snap I took at the time that I think summed up the moment.

[Rick_in_CA 401]

I won't promise that one! I take the Yoda approach to things like this. ie Do. or Do not. If they are going to sing they need to make sure they find time to practice and get it right. Taps isn't something we are familiar with!

Taps is a bugle call traditionally played at military funerals (such as at Arlington). It's origins are the bugle call for the end of day. While it does have words, it is usually presented without singing. The most common form for memorials is the single bugle (or trumpet).

 

If you have a bugler in your unit (not many do anymore), it's a pretty simple tune of 12 notes.

 

Taps:

 

Day is done, gone the sun

From the lakes, from the hills, from the sky

All is well, safely rest

God is nigh.

 

Fading light dims the sight

And a star gems the sky, gleaming bright

From afar, drawing near

Falls the night.

 

Thanks and praise for our days

Neath the sun, 'neath the stars', 'neath the sky'

As we go, this we know

God is nigh.

 

Edited October 8, 2015 by Rick_in_CA

[Cambridgeskip 658]

Taps is a bugle call traditionally played at military funerals (such as at Arlington). It's origins are the bugle call for the end of day. While it does have words, it is usually presented without singing. The most common form for memorials is the single bugle (or trumpet).

 

If you have a bugler in your unit (not many do anymore), it's a pretty simple tune of 12 notes.

 

Taps:

 

Day is done, gone the sun

From the lakes, from the hills, from the sky

All is well, safely rest

God is nigh.

 

Fading light dims the sight

And a star gems the sky, gleaming bright

From afar, drawing near

Falls the night.

 

Thanks and praise for our days

Neath the sun, 'neath the stars', 'neath the sky'

As we go, this we know

God is nigh.

 

 

Thanks Rick, I'd only ever heard it as a song. Traditionally Girl Guide troops finish their meetings singing Taps but something Scouts normally do. I've never heard it as a bugle call. I doubt we have a bugler but I suspect we'll have someone playing some kind of wind instrument who will do a job for us.

[scoutldr 726]

Most people I know are put off by the fact that it's not been shifted to a Monday like all the other holidays to enable a long weekend.

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

We have one troop that traditionally serves meals at one of the local restaurant chains that was started by veterans. Other than that, the Scouts in my area do not do anything special for Veteran's day as it is called in the US.

 

Now our Memorial Day is different. We have a district wide service project in conjunction with several veterans' groups. We are the ones putting the flags on Veterans' graves at 5 cemeteries.

 

As others have commented, Memorial Day has turned more into a "Beginning of Summer" or a three day weekend than a day of remembrance for most Americans. When the local school system decided to start holding school on Memorial Day, most parents protested because it interferred with their day off plans.

 

Then again I can't say the scouts have always honored Memorial Day either. When I first moved to the area, school was finished by Memorial Day. We were not putting out flags, and Cub Scout day camp started on Memorial Day.

[qwazse 4342]

Regarding Taps ... when sung I prefer it without an instrument.

 

Regarding respectfulness, my uncle regularly visits the village his platoon liberated in France. He tells me when he goes there, he and his buddies feel like they are "one of their own" to the villagers. So, I'd say if you teach your scouts to treat our fallen as if they are their own ... whatever customs they'd reserve for theirs, they also give to ours ... that would be the greatest respect.