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Noise At Noac


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#1 WAKWIB

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 11:28 AM

Seems there is always something to jab the Scouts about....

http://campusreform.org/?ID=6722

 


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#2 Rick_in_CA

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 12:10 PM

Seems there is always something to jab the Scouts about....

http://campusreform.org/?ID=6722

Unfortunately I'm not surprised. As others have noted, the culture on many university campuses is getting ridiculous. I ran across an interesting article the other day that calls this movement Vindictive Protectiveness instead of political correctness (as they have different motivations). I think I like that term.

 

How Trigger Warnings Are Hurting Mental Health on Campus.


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#3 MikeS

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 12:14 PM

OMG....obviously the guy who protested wanted his "15 minutes of fame".

 

As a Ceremonies / Drum & Dance Advisor for my local Chapter, I must agree however, that when the OA is emulating American Indian dress and, to some degree, tradtions, when done wrong or bad, it does not paint the OA in a very good way.

 

On the other hand, it's simply a known fact and acknowledged even by some American Indian groups that in some cases, the regalia used in the OA (again, when properly researched and done right) is actually more historically correct and "authentic" that what is worn today by many American Indians in a given area.


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#4 walk in the woods

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 12:14 PM

And Spartans isn't a cultural appropriation?
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#5 MattR

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 12:21 PM

I noticed in that article that nobody from a local tribe said anything. I'd listen to what they have to say a lot more than students. I suspect MikeS is right. It could be a great way to teach people about another culture.

 

I looked up the Indigenous Graduate Student Collective and found this quote:

 

One of the founding members, Nikki Silva hopes to conduct research with American Indian communities however in her words she doesn’t “have a lot of background in American Indian issues and is interested in learning more about the specific and unique issues facing Native peoples. I hope my research in anthropology and archeology can give back to Native communities today.


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#6 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 12:27 PM

OMG....obviously the guy who protested wanted his "15 minutes of fame".

 

As a Ceremonies / Drum & Dance Advisor for my local Chapter, I must agree however, that when the OA is emulating American Indian dress and, to some degree, tradtions, when done wrong or bad, it does not paint the OA in a very good way.

 

On the other hand, it's simply a known fact and acknowledged even by some American Indian groups that in some cases, the regalia used in the OA (again, when properly researched and done right) is actually more historically correct and "authentic" that what is worn today by many American Indians in a given area.

 

WOW. I know even some in the OA do not know of the long history the OA has had with some nations in helping to preserve culture, language, arts, etc. Some folks involved mat not be involved in the OA anymore, but if you ask them how they got their start, they will tell you the OA.

 

As for OA regalia being more historically "authentic" than today's NA regalia, most good ceremony teams focus on one specific period, and do their research. native culture is not dead or stagnant, but alive and vibrant. It is ever changing, and best reflected in the Powwow styles.

 

As for Ms. Silva,  maybe I should introduce her to some of my archaeology, anthropology, and ethno-historian friends who developed their interest in Native  American culture from...

 

 

.... doing ceremonies and dance while youth in the OA.


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#7 Gone

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 12:57 PM

And Spartans isn't a cultural appropriation?

 

...or Ole Miss

 

I noticed in that article that nobody from a local tribe said anything. 

 

 

Not unless the namesRice, Meissner and Edlemann are Cherokee and part of that lost tribe. ;)


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#8 CalicoPenn

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 01:59 PM

It's not like the BSA hasn't had internal arguments about these very same issues for years so really, no reason for any of us to go off the deep end here.  I clicked on the links in the article and saw that the protest was four people holding up signs at the Spartan statue on campus and respectfully engaging and listening to other points of view while those giving the other points of view were respectfully engaging and listening to the protestors.  All in all, what I saw was a perfect example to the Scouts of free speech and respect for others - it looked to me as if both sides were following the Scout Law and were acknowledging that they could find common ground.

 

The protesters have a point - there has been cultural appropriation by the OA - it's no secret that the OA actually acknowledges this.  The OA also has a point - we've worked hard and closely with Native American tribes and groups to reverse the "Hollywood" imagery that was common right on in to the 70's and 80's to become more culturally appropriate, and one way we're doing that is to more closely emulate the tribes indigenous to our areas.  Souix feather headresses are becoming a bit less common than they were.


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#9 Gone

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 02:03 PM

 

The protesters have a point - there has been cultural appropriation by the OA - it's no secret that the OA actually acknowledges this. 

 

This happens every weekend with teams making billions on such appropriations. Other than the obvious contentious "appropriations" you don't see too many people complaining about stereotyping Cowboys or Raiders or Rangers or Giants.

 

If the OA was performing their ceremonies like some bad B western Indians then I could see the indignation. I just don't see the fuss here.


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#10 qwazse

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 03:21 PM

This happens every weekend with teams making billions on such appropriations. Other than the obvious contentious "appropriations" you don't see too many people complaining about stereotyping Cowboys or Raiders or Rangers or Giants....

Or the wholesale appropriating of football jerseys by people who were never assigned a number. (Says the kid whose old-school folks only went to games in suit-and-tie or active-duty uniform. And would have us run laps and pound sand if we darkened the door with a jersey we didn't make the cut to wear.)


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#11 Stosh

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 08:22 PM

I'm also willing to bet that the vast majority of those Scouts and Scouters out there who think it's cool to wear a clan tartan kilt are really certified by the family to do so.  I would be willing to bet the tartan was selected not because it was the family tartan, but because it was a cool color.  But, hey, who cares anyway.  If I want to wear a tartan, or use some cool family crest, or wear an Irish knit sweater that goes with my dress pants, it's nobody's business but me.

 

Wrong, family wears family tartans and knits not yahoos at Walmart.

 

I AM certified to wear my family's tartan.  I had to prove my genealogy to the correct people in Scotland, but I did get myself certified.  How many women out there claiming to be DAR?  Veterans?  How far do we go before someone raises a red flag?  Maybe one ought not start looking for the line in the sand and just respect the traditions of others. 


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#12 Gone

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 08:51 PM

I wonder if German Anericans will put an end to people wearing silly hats and leather pants this Oktober. How racist is that? I'll be throngs of Germans will protest THAT exploitation.
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#13 SSScout

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 09:35 PM

Herr Schlecht Wolfe: 

Ein, zwei, drei,  g'suffa!  Mein Lederhosen  ,noch einmal,  so klein nicht ist..  Ein andere, bitte....

 

(Erlauben sie mal... Keine Umlaut....)


Edited by SSScout, 13 August 2015 - 09:40 PM.

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#14 Stosh

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 10:08 PM

Then there's the NFL's Vikings depicting an inaccurate depiction of some Norwegian wearing a helmet with horns.  That was never the case.  Another inappropriate caricature of an NFL football team.  :)  Go Pack!


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#15 WAKWIB

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Posted 14 August 2015 - 01:59 AM

Well, if I'm reading the letter-to-the-editor that inspired the protest correctly, the end game is not one of understanding. The writer simply does not want that "racist" Order of the Arrow on the Michigan State campus. Fair enough. There are many other places that would accommodate NOAC.
 
One possibility would be somewhere in the Kansas City area. HOAC would welcome NOAC with much friendship and warmth...ain't I right @John-in-KC?


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#16 walk in the woods

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Posted 14 August 2015 - 03:26 AM

If only the BSA had a large camp somewhere they could use for gatherings like this.
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#17 Gone

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Posted 14 August 2015 - 05:15 AM

Herr Schlecht Wolfe: 
Ein, zwei, drei,  g'suffa!  Mein Lederhosen  ,noch einmal,  so klein nicht ist..  Ein andere, bitte....
 
(Erlauben sie mal... Keine Umlaut....)


Es gab keine Umlaute da zu benutzen. ;)

Technically if you're using Bavarian (g'suffa) it would be "Eis, Zwoa, Drei". But few self-respecting Bavarians would be caught dead on the Wies'n. :)
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#18 John-in-KC

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Posted 14 August 2015 - 09:26 AM

NOAC is so big it requires a MAJOR university.

 

In the Middle West, that would be:

The University of  Missouri

The University of Nebraska

The University of Oklahoma

The University of Arkansas, MAYBE

 

NOAC is way to big for any scout reservation, even HRB, with it's 2000 bed capacity.


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#19 Gone

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Posted 14 August 2015 - 09:41 AM

So from the exploitation of those of Greek decent to those exploiting tigers, the corn-husking industry or people who exploited the westward expansion. ;)

 

I hear the University of North Texas has 36,000 students and a big campus. Their msacot is a green eagle and they are called "Mean Green". Even the left wing tree huggers would have a tough time finding something to picket there. They even have Mable Peabody's downtown. ;)


Edited by Bad Wolf, 14 August 2015 - 09:43 AM.

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#20 walk in the woods

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Posted 14 August 2015 - 11:17 AM

NOAC is way to big for any scout reservation, even HRB, with it's 2000 bed capacity.

But smaller than the number of people who attended the National Jamboree, no? :)


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