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Decorum And Acting Scoutlike


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#1 SCOUTER-Terry

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Posted 23 July 2015 - 07:00 PM

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The volunteer moderators of this forum do cheerful service, usually just keeping SCOUTER.com organized and enjoyable. 

 

The policy and standard of decorum for participation here has always included (1) acting Scoutlike and (2) behaving as you would standing around a campfire where Scouts and Scouters could gather.

 

The Issues and Politics Forum have always had greater leeway, because important and interesting issues deserved to be discussed.

 

The expected change in policy by BSA is a major inflection point (one long overdue in my opinion, though I respect that some may disagree based on their religious beliefs). It's certainly roused activity in this forum, and the Moderators are busy trying to maintain some semblance of decorum.

 

Here's the standard and direction I will give to Moderators: 

  1. Scouting already decided that every unit must not discriminate, exclude or otherwise harm gay kids. Period. No exceptions. And there very well may be one of those kids in your unit, or certainly reading this forum.
  2. Scouting seems poised to decide that only religiously-chartered units may choose to not select gay parents or leaders as mentors, and that would take effect immediately (like, next week). 
  3. It is impossible to honor point #1 above while standing around a campfire (or this virtual campfire we call SCOUTER.com) denigrating or shouting angrily into the wind your personal distaste for gay people. It's impossible to honor point #1 while disparaging an entire group of people that may include one of those kids.

As such, I encourage moderators to simply delete posts they feel could violate point #1 above. 

 

If excluding gay adults is something your church sponsored unit decides to do, and a message they want to send to gay kids that might be growing up in that unit, that is up to the sponsor to decide. Similarly, it's now up to the parents and Scouts to decide if they want to stay a part of that unit, or walk across to the street to join or start a new unit.

 

As for THIS public "campfire", we welcome discussion, and we welcome sincerely held, politely-stated personal beliefs. But we will not be used as a platform that sends denigrating messages to gay kids who may be within earshot. Scouting has moved past that, thank God.

 

TERRY

Publisher, SCOUTER.com

 

 

PS - If you dislike my position above, feel free to move on to a different forum (or start one of your own!). If you refuse to follow this standard, be prepared to be blocked from future participation in the forum.

 

PPS - Thank you, thank you, thank you to the volunteer Moderators, who 99% of the time are doing the thankless task of deleting spam, organizing topics and chasing down bug reports, and for their incredible "moderation", patience and service to our community in just keeping the cheerful spark burning.

 


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#2 SSScout

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Posted 23 July 2015 - 08:25 PM

Amen, friend.


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#3 T2Eagle

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Posted 23 July 2015 - 08:28 PM

I do appreciate this forum and would ;ike to add my thanks to the moderators, I believe they do an excellent job.


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#4 Scouter99

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Posted 23 July 2015 - 08:47 PM

EDITED/DELETED by SCOUTER-Terry.

Edited by SCOUTER-Terry, 23 July 2015 - 09:04 PM.

"The numbers in a Troop should preferably not exceed thirty two. I suggest this number because in training boys myself I have found that sixteen was about as many I could deal with - in getting at and bringing out the individual character in each. I allow for other people being twice as capable as myself and hence the total of thirty-two."

-Baden-Powell, Aids to Scoutmastership


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#5 CalicoPenn

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Posted 23 July 2015 - 09:26 PM

Thank you for the hard work you've put into this forum, and thanks also for providing the issues and politics campfire where we can discuss things with a bit more candor (much like after hours campfires at camp).

 

I too will jump on the bandwagon and thank the moderators for the great job they do and I'll take it one step futher and thank all the posters on these forums for a sometimes funny, sometimes challenging and always entertaining set of conversations.


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#6 Rick_in_CA

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 02:02 AM

I also wish to thank the moderators and Terry for all that they do here.


Edited by Rick_in_CA, 24 July 2015 - 02:03 AM.

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#7 jr56

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 11:29 AM

Unfortunately, there are  a few people out there that have 2 things in common (as stated previously), a PC, and an opinion.


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#8 MattR

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 01:35 PM

Terry, I agree with 99% of what you said and what you and the moderators do for this forum and scouting. Without the help I've found on this forum I would have given up on scouting a long time ago - and I'm not done needing help. I also agree that acting scout like is paramount. That said, I'd like to hold your feet to the flame to a much higher standard than anyone else here is held to. Most likely I just want to make a point and picking on you is the best chance I have to do that. Please let me explain. Your post comment "(or start one of your own!)" reflects what was said a lot to those people that wanted a change in the membership policy. That comment was always said with a bit of my way or the highway, take it or leave it, I could care less about what you want attitude. I've never thought it to be scout like. Yes, you said up front that you respect the religious differences of everyone here, and yes, your point that you won't tolerate the denigration of gay scouts is also admirable. However, that phrase doesn't help and right now we need to figure out how to help each other.

 

We need to help each other against the extremes that will never be happy with what the BSA is doing. We also need to keep helping each other learn about scouting. We have a wide range of expertise here and the last thing I'd like to see is a big chunk of that leaving over this issue. Some will. But hopefully many will stay. I would very much like to invite them to my campfire.

 

This forum reminds me of my extended family and how sometimes it's more important to tolerate your father-in-law than confront him. It made me better in the long run, even if it took nearly 30 years!

 

Thanks again for what all y'all on this forum do (All y'all is Southern for "every single one of the many" :))


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#9 SCOUTER-Terry

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 01:52 PM

@MattR, fair enough... Though my comment was meant more to align with the wonderful news that soon all families will be able to find or start a Scout troop and join the Movement.

This here little website may have been around since November of 1995 (20 year celebration needs to start planning soon!), but folks can easily walk across the Internet tubes and launch their own.

Happy weekend to y'all.
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#10 Eagledad

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 02:38 PM

Thanks Matt and well said. I have been  here a long time and feel I have contributed a lot, as well as have a lot more to contribute. But I have also never felt less welcome to the forum than in the last couple of weeks. 

 

Barry


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"Experience is the hardest teacher. It gives the test first, then the lesson."


#11 packsaddle

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 02:39 PM

Edit: Eagledad, I hope that in the coming weeks you can feel differently about this site.


Edited by packsaddle, 24 July 2015 - 03:05 PM.

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#12 Gone

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 02:58 PM

Thanks Matt and well said. I have been  here a long time and feel I have contributed a lot, as well as have a lot more to contribute. But I have also never felt less welcome to the forum than in the last couple of weeks. 

 

Barry

 

I'd have to agree. And some of the comments (or threats) by those who moderate/own the site do not help either...nor are they in the spirit of this thread title...ironically.


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#13 Rick_in_CA

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 04:11 PM

Thanks Matt and well said. I have been  here a long time and feel I have contributed a lot, as well as have a lot more to contribute. But I have also never felt less welcome to the forum than in the last couple of weeks. 
 
Barry


I'm sorry you feel unwelcome. You contribute much to this forum, and it would be a lesser place without you. I have learned so much from everyone on this forum (and hopefully will continue to do so).

On thing that has always been clear to me, is that we all love scouting and are passionate about it. And because of that, we often bring lots of passion to our discussions. I agree that we need to try and stay scout-like in our debates, even when the topic is something that stirs strong emotion in us. We can disagree passionately, but can remain civil. That is something I have always tried to do (with mixed success). I often find our I&P debates very useful. When my opinions are challenged, it forces me to clarify them and to think more deeply about them. These discussions exposed me to new ideas or points of view that I might not have considered before. It makes me a better, more thoughtful person and scouter (and I hope that my meager contributions help others).

 

And while there are frequent posters here that I disagree with on some topics (and some that I very strongly disagree with), there isn't a single one that hasn't impressed me with their dedication and love for scouting. Who isn't striving to do the best he or she can for their scouts and scouting. I can't think of a single one of you that I wouldn't want to meet at a real campfire, so I would be able to shake your hand and say "thank you friend".


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#14 prof

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 05:31 PM

I would add my thanks to the moderators of this site!
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#15 Scouter99

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 08:37 PM

 I can't think of a single one of you that I wouldn't want to meet at a real campfire, so I would be able to shake your hand and say "thank you friend".

Likewise, though I doubt we'd recognize half of each other. ;)


"The numbers in a Troop should preferably not exceed thirty two. I suggest this number because in training boys myself I have found that sixteen was about as many I could deal with - in getting at and bringing out the individual character in each. I allow for other people being twice as capable as myself and hence the total of thirty-two."

-Baden-Powell, Aids to Scoutmastership


iEmBJEs.png


#16 Huzzar

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 10:50 PM

Bye
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#17 David CO

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Posted 25 July 2015 - 03:53 AM

Terry,

 

What is the worst case scenario that conservative churches have to fear?  I'll tell you.  It is that Scout leaders will advise boys to not follow the teachings of their church.  It is that Scout leaders will suggest that boys change religions.

 

A church-owned unit is part of the ministry of the church.  To suggest that boys switch from their church-owned units is dangerously close to advising that they choose a different religion.


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#18 packsaddle

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Posted 25 July 2015 - 06:48 AM

David, I've seen that already but not, I suspect, in the context you are thinking about. I've seen (counting through memory now) about a dozen, at least a dozen times that a leader in both cub and boy scout units have suggested a different faith as superior somehow to the faith that a boy's family currently followed. It has happened to me and my children as well. For my children, on a couple of occasions when they politely declined, they were informed that they were "going to go to hell" as a result. Do you think these 'invitations' came from persons from 'liberal' faiths?

 

This kind of nonsense is not something new and I've seen it all my life. I admit I was surprised when it 'emerged' from unit leaders but it did.


Edited by packsaddle, 25 July 2015 - 06:55 AM.

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#19 Stosh

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Posted 25 July 2015 - 08:36 AM

I'm thinking the forum is more courteous than most I have been on. I also think that it is because the members are Scouts. Having been a moderator on many of them I'm of the opinion that I agree with @Bad Wolf

I'd have to agree. And some of the comments (or threats) by those who moderate/own the site do not help either...nor are they in the spirit of this thread title...ironically.

The reaction of @Eagledad

Thanks Matt and well said. I have been  here a long time and feel I have contributed a lot, as well as have a lot more to contribute. But I have also never felt less welcome to the forum than in the last couple of weeks. 
 
Barry

sums it up for me as well. I'm finding I am marking threads "read" and bypassing them more often than before.
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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#20 packsaddle

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Posted 25 July 2015 - 09:31 AM

Likewise, though I doubt we'd recognize half of each other. ;)

 

I've met a couple here and there. I was hoping to meet OGE on one of my trips to NY but his unexpected passing, well...I'll really miss him. Went camping with one forum member and his unit and was glad to have provided a much needed downpour for the entire trip, lol. It always seems to rain when I'm with someone on the trail, almost never if I'm solo.

I met one with whom I had numerous arguments on these forums for years before we met. We had a great time and a great outing. Turned out we had far more in common than our differences in these forums indicated.

It really helps to be able to see the eyes and expressions and actually hear the tone and inflection of voice. You get far more from a real conversation than this social media stuff that masquerades as 'social' interaction. It allows us to see the other person as a real human being rather than some text that suddenly appears on the screen.

 

Edit: And Vicki, if you're still out there someplace, I'd love to meet you and let you yell at me some more about my 'sexist claptrap', lol. As it is, I can depend on my wife for that criticism...and she's pretty good at it too.


Edited by packsaddle, 25 July 2015 - 09:38 AM.

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