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Two Councils May Merge


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#1 Gone

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 12:48 PM

http://www.wktv.com/...solidation.html


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#2 BDPT00

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 12:56 PM

Sounds like a wise idea to me, just based upon numbers.  They're both pretty small.


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#3 NJCubScouter

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 01:33 PM

The article says the COMBINED council would have 3,500 Cub and Boy Scouts. That is really REALLY small, isn't it? I just looked up my own council and it has 19,000 youth members. Of course that part of New York is much more sparsely populated than my council, so I guess at some point a council could cover such a spread-out area that getting to the council hq would take hours. (In fact I suspect in the West this is often the case; I only have the perspective of the most densely populated state in the country.)

But still... Are there standards for how big or small (either geographically or population-wise) a council should be?
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#4 BDPT00

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 02:15 PM

I don't think there are any standards, no.  The smallest council I'm aware of is Marin County, but they're also the richest.  I doubt there will ever be a merger involving them.  The huge councils are North Dakota and Montana.  Not enough people to split them up.  Camps and roundtables could easily call for an overnighter. 


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#5 Gone

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 02:39 PM

The huge councils are North Dakota and Montana.  Not enough people to split them up.  Camps and roundtables could easily call for an overnighter. 

 

We used to have more than two councils. The biggest covers 12,000+ scouts across the state not including those in the NE part of the state part of Northern Lights. 


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#6 RememberSchiff

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 03:18 PM

“At the core of these discussions is the understanding that above all, we want to create a sustainable program providing a better scouting experience for our youth.” said William Kline, Council President for the Revolutionary Trails Council headquartered in Utica. “With a combined Council we can attract more scouts, train more leaders and develop programming that we never thought possible to get our Scouts excited and learning.”

 

Yeah maybe.

 

I have previously sought an example where a merger of councils increased scout membership, I have found none. Short time financial benefit with a continued decline in membership as resources are stretched and then a few years later on to the next merger. "Two strong councils" might better left alone for the scouts they serve as Nashoba Valley decided in a proposed merger with Mohegan Council. Their Executive Council voted against the merger but not before placing their main council camp safely in a trust.

 

Next time any National or Council professional mentions the over-used word "sustainable", I want them to sing "I'm a little teapot." :p

 

My $0.02 and good luck to the scouts of both councils.


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#7 NJCubScouter

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 03:48 PM

I remember that thread, RS. I am sure the real reason is to cut costs while keeping revenues the same. I seem to recall that in that case there was a report showing that by saving the salary of 1 SE and maybe a couple of other people who wouldn't be needed in a combined counsel, the new council could hire X number of people who would be able to focus more on membership and program. (Or at least, that is approximately what it said.) But it was only a few people, and I think the idea that a small number of people are going to make such a big change is highly questionable.

To be fair though, it may be that if the councils are SO small that TOGETHER they have only 3,500 youth members, maybe they are not really viable from a program standpoint as separate councils. I'm sure my district has more youth members than that.
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#8 SSScout

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 06:41 PM

When will I hear of a Council's professionals doing what the volunteers do?    ""...and develop programming that we never thought possible to get our Scouts excited and learning.”  

 

?Learning?   What happened to adventure (safe) and outdoor skills and   confidence  in those skills? 

 

Oh, where are you , Kudu?  


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#9 Gone

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 07:46 PM

I have previously sought an example where a merger of councils increased scout membership, I have found none. .


Montana Council merged four councils as I recall. Membership has stayed constant as I recall.
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#10 CalicoPenn

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 08:08 PM

I worked at our council run cub day camp for a number of years and was on staff for the first council run day camp (prior to that, each district ran their own).  Our first professional staff liason stuck around for a couple of years then took a job with a Council in Montana.  One of the qualifications was that he had to be a pilot because of the distances involved.  I seem to recall him telling us that there were only 2 councils in Montana at the time - and this was the early 1980's.


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#11 Gone

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 05:37 AM

1973.
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#12 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 06:53 AM

  Our first professional staff liason stuck around for a couple of years then took a job with a Council in Montana.  One of the qualifications was that he had to be a pilot because of the distances involved.

 

When I went to PDL-1 as a brand new DE, one of the folks in my class was retired USAF and had her own plane. She would fly her plane around her district to service the various units.

 I think she was in ND.

 

 

 


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#13 fred johnson

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 11:47 AM

... 3,500  scouts ...  really small ... they should pull in three or four or five or six or more councils into that merger.  


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#14 SeattlePioneer

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 01:05 PM

<<In 2001, the Land of the Oneidas Council and General Herkimer Council merged forming the current council.>>

 

 

According to Wikipedia,  this isn't the first recent merger.


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#15 NJCubScouter

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 01:30 PM

As of the early 80's, New Jersey probably had about 15-20 councils, and I would not be surprised if earlier there were 25 or more. Now I believe there are five councils entirely in NJ and two others with some territory in NJ but based in Pennsylvania. (The late great OldGreyEagle's council, Minsi Trails, is one of the latter; the other was the Bucks County Council up until a couple a couple years ago, now called the Washington Crossing Council to reflect the fact that it now includes both sides of Washington's crossing of the Delaware.)

Some of the old councils in New Jersey were very small geographically. My father was a Boy Scout in the Bayonne council, which consisted of one small city.
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#16 North Bay Scouter

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 10:12 AM

The smallest council I'm aware of is Marin County, but they're also the richest.  I doubt there will ever be a merger involving them.


There are other councils smaller than Marin in terms of membership.

And as far as richest...don't believe everything you hear.
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#17 Tokala

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 02:21 PM

My Council has about 1200 Boy Scouts and 1000 Cub Scouts. Total membership is less than 3800. We have a great program and two well-run camps (by volunteers). Our school system gave us the boot a long time ago which seriously impacted our abilities to recruit. Until a few years ago, the Executive Board and untis continued to beat their heads against the wall of the school board and did not look at new ways to recruit. We have made a lot of progress working around the school board and doing more non-traditional recruiting efforts. Other than small membership, our JTE scores were better than most of the Councils in our area which include Jacksonville, Orlando, Miami and Tampa.


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#18 BDPT00

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 02:38 PM

There are other councils smaller than Marin in terms of membership.
And as far as richest...don't believe everything you hear.

 

I'm referring to per capita income, and yes, I could be wrong.  Enlighten me.


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#19 Gone

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 03:01 PM

I'm referring to per capita income, and yes, I could be wrong.  Enlighten me.

 

I don't think per capita income translates in to how well a council is funded, does it? I don't know so this is a serious question.

 

My cousin lives near national. His council is reported to have tons of cash on hand. His district is in a VERY affluent part of the city, yet they have the same challenges funding and staffing events as I do way up here in God's Country.

 

I'd also be curious as to how council size, location and other factors play in to the funding mechanisms for councils...if at all.


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#20 Daped01

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 02:27 PM

I don't think there are any standards, no.  The smallest council I'm aware of is Marin County, but they're also the richest.  I doubt there will ever be a merger involving them.  The huge councils are North Dakota and Montana.  Not enough people to split them up.  Camps and roundtables could easily call for an overnighter. 

 

 

Ahhh you are speaking to my council :)  Northern Lights council to be exact.  You forgot northwest Minnesota and 2 counties in South Dakota as well.  but i'll let that pass!  hahaha

 

According to our last annual report we have 6,917 Cub Scouts, 2,356 Boy Scouts, 534 Venturers, 1476 Exploring/Learning for Life Participants.

 

Total Available Youth 89,517: with 11,283 youth as members giving us a 10.95% of youth served in 397 Units.

 

 

I don't know how this relates to the conversation, or compares to the rest of the country. but its rare i see anyone mention our council and felt i wanted to spread the love!


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