Jump to content



Photo
- - - - -

Scoutbook Acquired By Bsa


  • Please log in to reply
56 replies to this topic

#41 qwazse

qwazse

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 6612 posts

Posted 09 June 2015 - 11:55 AM

... You Way: Scout sits down for a rather lengthy session to rebuild his entire book including rank, camping and service log. ..

Not sure that's a bad thing.

 

But, my brother is not an Eagle because an SM went AWOL with all the troop's blue cards and no other scouter was around to back him up and encourage him to hike over to the next nearest troop and figure out how to reconcile matters. So, I don't see a meticulous advancement chair as a bad thing either.


  • 0

#42 Gone

Gone

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1811 posts

Posted 09 June 2015 - 12:50 PM

Not sure that's a bad thing.

 

But, my brother is not an Eagle because an SM went AWOL with all the troop's blue cards and no other scouter was around to back him up and encourage him to hike over to the next nearest troop and figure out how to reconcile matters. So, I don't see a meticulous advancement chair as a bad thing either.

@qwazse, there are a few ways to avoid any records problems.

 

First, we tell all of our scouts to keep their handbooks up to date and keep a scan or picture of ALL pages. We also tell them to keep all their blue cards. Partials are kept by the scout. When they get sign off we tell them to scan/photo of those too in case they "get lost in the process" or something. This way, regardless of what happens with the adults processing paperwork, the scout always has his most recent update.

 

Second, the unit has ALL of the scout's records in TroopMaster. The scout knows his camping and service history, as well as all his rank advancement and MB data, also training. These are all important things for the scout to now. It allows them to keep track of their scouting history. We encourage them to keep this same data in their handbook and keep that up to date (with scans/photos) too.

 

Third is ScoutNet. Whether data is entered from the handbook directly in to ScoutNet or imported from TM to ScoutNet, the process of the original inputting must still happen. Using our troop's approach we have a primary (handbook and scout records), secondary (TroopMaster) and tertiary (ScoutNet). We even have a fourth back up since TM is backed up in to a cloud environment. ScoutNet is hosted inside of BSA there's always a chance they could go down. This way we have our secondary back up on TM.

 

We still require the scout to manage his own scouting career and paperwork, we just have a back up plan in case something happens (e.g., fire, flood, natural disaster, etc.). I never want to be in a position of telling a scout with 6 years in the program he cannot make Eagle because of a single or dual point of failure. Too much at stake.


  • 0

#43 fred johnson

fred johnson

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 1559 posts

Posted 09 June 2015 - 01:38 PM

Not sure that's a bad thing.

 

But, my brother is not an Eagle because an SM went AWOL with all the troop's blue cards and no other scouter was around to back him up and encourage him to hike over to the next nearest troop and figure out how to reconcile matters. So, I don't see a meticulous advancement chair as a bad thing either.

 

I'm sorry for your brother.  His scout leaders did not do right by him.  Leaders screw up and burn out and other ugly things.  That's why there are multiple leaders.  Someone should have stepped up to help resolve the adult-induced problem your brother had.  

 

I was not a scout 30 years ago.  It would be interesting to learn more about how BSA recorded advancement back then.


  • 0

#44 Gone

Gone

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1811 posts

Posted 09 June 2015 - 01:48 PM

I was not a scout 30 years ago.  It would be interesting to learn more about how BSA recorded advancement back then.


I was. In my unit the SM and CC did the following:

  • Scout logged everything (camping, service, rank and MBs) in his handbook.
  • Ranks were signed off during SMC, then BOR (usually same night) and rank was awarded same night.
  • Scout kept and held blue cards. Completed cards were turned in. MBs were awarded at COH.
  • Adults still processed paperwork and went to "scout shop" for awards.
  • Discrepancies? Go back to scout's handbook or troop spreadsheet, then reconcile.

This same process is what my unit uses today but with the data base as back up as opposed to a troop spread sheet.


  • 0

#45 qwazse

qwazse

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 6612 posts

Posted 09 June 2015 - 03:26 PM

I was a scout a little more than 30 years ago, and like @Bad Wolf, my SM had roughly the same procedure. For upper ranks he created a file on each scout. Kept it beside his shoe box full of pictures and organ pipes needing repaired.

 

My brother was a scout almost 60 years ago. Some kid not getting a medal would not generate much outcry among the miners, shepherds, and veterans to whom we sold beer.


  • 0

#46 fred johnson

fred johnson

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 1559 posts

Posted 11 June 2015 - 11:47 AM

I was. In my unit the SM and CC did the following:

  • Scout logged everything (camping, service, rank and MBs) in his handbook.
  • Ranks were signed off during SMC, then BOR (usually same night) and rank was awarded same night.
  • Scout kept and held blue cards. Completed cards were turned in. MBs were awarded at COH.
  • Adults still processed paperwork and went to "scout shop" for awards.
  • Discrepancies? Go back to scout's handbook or troop spreadsheet, then reconcile.

This same process is what my unit uses today but with the data base as back up as opposed to a troop spread sheet.

 

My question is what did BSA keep back then?  Did each council have a paper file on each scout?  How was rank and merit badge advancement tracked at the council level ?

 

For the last 15 years, I've been able to go to the council registrar and get a printed record of each scout's advancement if I need it.  Just wondering if something like that was available back then too.


Edited by fred johnson, 11 June 2015 - 11:49 AM.

  • 0

#47 Gone

Gone

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1811 posts

Posted 11 June 2015 - 11:59 AM

My question is what did BSA keep back then?  Did each council have a paper file on each scout?  How was rank and merit badge advancement tracked at the council level ?

 

For the last 15 years, I've been able to go to the council registrar and get a printed record of each scout's advancement if I need it.  Just wondering if something like that was available back then too.

 

@fred johnson, to my knowledge council files were not as detailed as they are now. The council I grew up in kept aggregate files on units. In other words, they sold patches and kept paper copies of how many First Class patches were sold to Troop 111, but not that Tommy Jones made FC on 4/4/74. In fact, when I went to get my OA tap out date from my old council they had no record of me ever being an Arrowman. All I had was my sash and a 30 year-old flap to prove it.

 

I cannot speak for other councils.


  • 0

#48 skeptic

skeptic

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1924 posts

Posted 11 June 2015 - 12:38 PM

Our council had paper files going back about 10 years available for troops and such; then they were archived, but kept.  We still have rosters and charter paperwork dating to the start of the council in 1921, which I spent weeks organizing a number of years back while searching for other things.  Found lone scout registrations, Rover unit charters with cards attached, and lists of members for all the charters going all the way back.  I was able to verify my unit membership through them and have copies of them all in my own archives.  Every once in a while I check to make sure they are still there; think I may need to go into them and straighten them out some again, as they have been dug through a few times since I did it.

 

Scouts were not registered as anything but First Class with merit badges until the war years.  So, it is hard to determine that data.  After about 1943 they are showing ranks all the way to Eagle on recharter rosters.  It can be both tedious and fascinating to go through these things.  But I guess we are more fortunate than other councils in actually had someone with the foresight to save them.


  • 0

#49 DadScouts

DadScouts

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 72 posts

Posted 19 August 2015 - 04:37 PM

I don't know ScoutBooks.  I do know Internet Advancement and Internet Rechartering.  

If the owners of both softwares are the same I will never ever even entertain looking at ScoutBooks given BSA IT department history.  

 

Troopmaster, despite flaws others say, old technology, etc. is absolutely wonderful.  Half a dozen leaders all have somewhat limited data entries rights and every single member of the Troop (parents, Eagle alumni, old Scouter alumni) have real only full access to all records via their website app.  Only medical records are restricted.  

 

The new Troopmaster Mobile application is outstanding, although we only use that in Read Only mode.  NO reason whatsoever for any member of the Troop to ever say "I don't know ____________".  If that still happens the "check the Troop database or look it up on your iPhone" are great answers to just about any question imaginable.

 

If BSA locks out Troopmaster I will only file paper advancement from now on and cease instructing others within the Council on how to use Internet Advancement like I do now.  


  • 1

#50 perdidochas

perdidochas

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2189 posts

Posted 20 August 2015 - 10:31 AM

I was. In my unit the SM and CC did the following:

  • Scout logged everything (camping, service, rank and MBs) in his handbook.
  • Ranks were signed off during SMC, then BOR (usually same night) and rank was awarded same night.
  • Scout kept and held blue cards. Completed cards were turned in. MBs were awarded at COH.
  • Adults still processed paperwork and went to "scout shop" for awards.
  • Discrepancies? Go back to scout's handbook or troop spreadsheet, then reconcile.

This same process is what my unit uses today but with the data base as back up as opposed to a troop spread sheet.

 

I assume by spreadsheet, you mean a physical piece of paper. 


  • 0

#51 perdidochas

perdidochas

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2189 posts

Posted 20 August 2015 - 10:34 AM

My question is what did BSA keep back then?  Did each council have a paper file on each scout?  How was rank and merit badge advancement tracked at the council level ?

 

For the last 15 years, I've been able to go to the council registrar and get a printed record of each scout's advancement if I need it.  Just wondering if something like that was available back then too.

Not sure at the council level, but at the unit level there were paper forms that were supposed to be kept for each scout. See the individual scout records on page 123-124

 

www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/Forms.pdf


  • 0

#52 Gone

Gone

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1811 posts

Posted 20 August 2015 - 10:52 AM

I assume by spreadsheet, you mean a physical piece of paper. 

 

One of our Instructors built a spreadsheet with each scout's name and two tabs. One had the old requirements, the other the new requirements. Using lookup he was able to track each group. When he left the troop for college he made it a template which Instructors since have passed down. Hasn't been needed since 2011 but I have another techie volunteer scout who is updating it now for 2016. ;)

 

Got to love technical kids!


  • 0

#53 perdidochas

perdidochas

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2189 posts

Posted 21 August 2015 - 09:10 AM

Has anyone beside Bad Wolf and myself looked at ScoutBook.com ???

 

I haven't.  As I said, we just finally got our records straight in Troop Webhost after migrating from Troopmaster (mainly due to the fact that only a small group of scouts have Troopmaster information, since we switched two years ago. 

 

TWH handles advancement almost as good as  Troopmaster, is good for scout accounts, is good for email, and we are trying to get the boys to use it to sign up for campouts.


  • 0

#54 perdidochas

perdidochas

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2189 posts

Posted 21 August 2015 - 09:12 AM

I don't know ScoutBooks.  I do know Internet Advancement and Internet Rechartering.  

If the owners of both softwares are the same I will never ever even entertain looking at ScoutBooks given BSA IT department history.  

 

Troopmaster, despite flaws others say, old technology, etc. is absolutely wonderful.  Half a dozen leaders all have somewhat limited data entries rights and every single member of the Troop (parents, Eagle alumni, old Scouter alumni) have real only full access to all records via their website app.  Only medical records are restricted.  

 

The new Troopmaster Mobile application is outstanding, although we only use that in Read Only mode.  NO reason whatsoever for any member of the Troop to ever say "I don't know ____________".  If that still happens the "check the Troop database or look it up on your iPhone" are great answers to just about any question imaginable.

 

If BSA locks out Troopmaster I will only file paper advancement from now on and cease instructing others within the Council on how to use Internet Advancement like I do now.  

Well Scoutbooks was developed by a different group of people than the current Internet Advancement and Rechartering.    BSA bought the application (and I hope the developers).  We don't have an option to not use Internet Advancement anymore, and haven't for about a year. 


  • 0

#55 mattman578

mattman578

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 168 posts

Posted 21 August 2015 - 10:12 AM

I am an IT guy buy trade I got and temporary account on scout book to look around and see what it was about.  I found it very cumbersome and not very intuitive basically hard to navigate and see what was going on and what to do.  If I can not figure it out my AC that can barely work her phone would be lost !


  • 1

#56 Gone

Gone

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1811 posts

Posted 21 August 2015 - 10:44 AM

Well Scoutbooks was developed by a different group of people than the current Internet Advancement and Rechartering.    BSA bought the application (and I hope the developers).  We don't have an option to not use Internet Advancement anymore, and haven't for about a year. 

 

I don't think the development team was very big from what I hear.


  • 0

#57 fred johnson

fred johnson

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 1559 posts

Posted 21 August 2015 - 11:06 AM

I am an IT guy buy trade I got and temporary account on scout book to look around and see what it was about.  I found it very cumbersome and not very intuitive basically hard to navigate and see what was going on and what to do.  If I can not figure it out my AC that can barely work her phone would be lost !

 

I agree.  I think ScoutBook targets the mom and dad who want to see all the awards their kid has.  It adds flare and style presenting the scouting record.  The rest of the system is tedious to navigate through.


  • 1




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users


IPB Skin By Virteq