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TWO MORE CAMPS BITE THE DUST


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#1 eagle90

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Posted 25 January 2015 - 02:42 PM

Three Harbors Council (WI) has announced they are closing their TWO long term summer camps, Lefeber Northwoods Camp and Robert S. Lyle after the 2015 season. They are keeping open 2 Cub Scouts camps located within 50 miles of the council office. The long term camps are 3-4 hours away. Lots of upset scouters, including our troop members who have spent the last 17 summers at Lefeber. Seems like we are bowing down to the Cub Scout program and forsaking the Boy Scout area.
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#2 SeattlePioneer

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Posted 25 January 2015 - 04:45 PM

On the bright side, I suppose Troops will no longer be hearing complaints about Troops doing their summer camp out of council... Perhaps this is a smart move though, Since Scout Camps are expensive to maintain considering their often limited amount of use.
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#3 RememberSchiff

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Posted 25 January 2015 - 07:11 PM

http://www.threeharb...g/#!about1/c6wa

"The task force found that each of the four properties is in need of significant capital investments at a time when camping participation is declining, leading to excess capacity at northern Wisconsin Boy Scout camps.

“The need to maintain a dedicated council-run camp in the Northwoods of Wisconsin is minimized due to the heavy concentration of well-funded, well-run camps in the area with excess capacity,” the task force reported. “To offer a summer camp experience of similar quality would require more capital than can be justified.”

In addition to $1 million in deferred maintenance that would be required for accredited camp programs at the northern camps, another $12 million would need be to be invested to achieve a “Blue Ribbon” status based on new national standards for Scout camps."

?? Not all camps need to be "upgraded" , why not leave them primitive and limit program to scoutcraft. Never hear of a "Blue Ribbon" status is that a 4-H cow camp with heated barns? :rolleyes:
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#4 hiker67

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Posted 25 January 2015 - 09:12 PM

"Both of the council’s northern Wisconsin camps, LeFeber Northwoods Camps near Laona and Robert S. Lyle Scout Reservation near Elcho, are owned by trusts but used exclusively by Three Harbors Council. The Board’s decision to end camping programs does not include any recommendation on ownership of the properties."
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#5 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 25 January 2015 - 11:43 PM

Eagle90, I', sorry to hear about the loss of camps, but don't blame the Cubs. Blame who is coming up with these ridiculous standards that are causing camps to be closed: national.
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#6 CalicoPenn

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Posted 26 January 2015 - 12:16 PM

Half the troops are already camping at out of council camps, there is a large number of camps in the general area, and there is at least $1 million in maintenance required at these two non-council owned properties in order to just maintain accreditation. As sad as it is to lose camps - I can sympathize with the Council on making these decisions. If these properties were owned by the Council, that would be a whole different kettle of hawks. Yes, it will be sad to see them go, but changing demographics is hard to fight against.
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#7 Lurking...

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Posted 26 January 2015 - 01:19 PM

With all the scout camps in Wisconsin from councils in 3 different states, I'm sure one can find a place to camp somewhere. Stosh
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#8 Fehler

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Posted 27 January 2015 - 01:23 PM

I went to Three Harbors Council website (http://www.threeharborsscouting.org/) grabbed the Winter 2015 copy of their newsletter, just to get a feel about this council. And what did I see? On page one was the "Scout Executive's Minute" written by the "Scout Executive/CEO". CEO? Really? And he throws around titles like "Chief Uniformed Officer" and "Council Key 5" (its only Key 3 around here, who are the other two?). The article fills the page introducing the departing Council Commissioner, and in the continuation on Page 2 (you continue a page one article on page two?) finally introduces the guy taking over the job.

The piece just hit an off note for me. The article went off on the importance of the position, tossing around titles, the people doing the job were a footnote. It was not helped that the "Scout Executive/CEO" writing the piece had a big, color mugshot on the front page next to his name, but the guys being talked about were regulated to grainy camp snapshots (on page 2).
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#9 jpstodwftexas

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 11:22 AM

STEMS STEMS....Welcome To BOY STEMS. We are Taking the Outing out of Scouting once again...Better get out those OSHA Regulation...Camp Rangers will be Called Inspectors. BSA is regulating out Small Camps. Won't Be long Only BSA Camps will be Northern Tier, Sea Base, Philmont and The Summitt...
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#10 Lurking...

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 11:41 AM

And where in the rules does it say a scout unit must use a scout camp for summer activities? Let's just have Merit Badge Week at the Council Office for the boys. Stosh
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#11 jpstodwftexas

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 01:30 AM

Stosh that would interfere with 1 Day Merit Badge Colleges
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#12 Lurking...

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 08:04 AM

BUT!.... if you had all week, you could probably actually finish the MB's ... on-site even. It's a bit of a stretch, but I think it can be done. Just bring a fake fire with the lightbulb in it, have the boys sit around and sing songs after 8 hours of sitting in a chair studying Citizenship. Sounds like a wonderful opportunity for the boys. If this catches on, the 1 Day MB Colleges would become obsolete and the boys could get to Eagle 5 times faster. Just think of the possibilities. This way the boys can earn Eagle while being a Boy Scout, that is before they are forced to go into Venturing at age 14. Stosh
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#13 Miami_Chief

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 05:52 PM

I went to Three Harbors Council website (http://www.threeharborsscouting.org/) grabbed the Winter 2015 copy of their newsletter, just to get a feel about this council. And what did I see? On page one was the "Scout Executive's Minute" written by the "Scout Executive/CEO". CEO? Really? And he throws around titles like "Chief Uniformed Officer" and "Council Key 5" (its only Key 3 around here, who are the other two?). The article fills the page introducing the departing Council Commissioner, and in the continuation on Page 2 (you continue a page one article on page two?) finally introduces the guy taking over the job.

The piece just hit an off note for me. The article went off on the importance of the position, tossing around titles, the people doing the job were a footnote. It was not helped that the "Scout Executive/CEO" writing the piece had a big, color mugshot on the front page next to his name, but the guys being talked about were regulated to grainy camp snapshots (on page 2).



Personal feelings about the camp closures and the Three Harbors Council aside, I really couldn't find any issues with this piece.

For starters a Council's Scout Executive IS its Chief Executive Officer. CEO is also a term that parents, volunteers, and the general public can easily recognize. I'd wager that most parents/volunteers couldn't tell the difference between an SE, DE, DFS, FD or most other BSA professional acronyms. CEO is pretty well understood by the general public.

The Chief Uniformed Officer or Top Uniformed Volunteer is a pretty common term for the Council Commissioner. That's right, the Scout Executive spent the entirety of his message talking about volunteers. Not hand-picked business types with little Scouting connection, but genuine, boots on the ground volunteers like most of us here. The article is lengthy due to the long Scouting service of both volunteers.

In addition to the standard Key 3, some Council's include a President Elect, VP of Program, or Past President to make a Key 4 or Key 5. I think most of us can agree that more volunteer leadership at the top of our Councils would be nice.

While the volunteer pics are grainy camp snapshots, they were likely submitted by the volunteers themselves. Both of which are larger than the Scout Exec's pic on the front.

I don't want to derail the thread too much, but this just seemed like a quick way to stir up emotions on an already touchy subject.
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#14 Lurking...

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 08:44 PM

Miami_Chief, some young upstart comes in on this forum and starts taking the old-guard to the cleaners is not going to bode well for you. After all if you're going to make any progress with us here, coming in like this with a fresh perspective that makes sense isn't gonna cut it. :) Yeah, I think you're correct, a lot of times we banter around things like BOR, EBOR, DE, POR, MB's and such and never take into consideration any of the newbies lurking too intimidated to ask questions like, "What the H..L is EBOR???? I for one thank you. Obviously from your perspective it would make sense to use common business alphabet soup so that people understand rather than the secret handshake terminology we in the BSA (aka, Boy Scouts of America) use to keep the clique going. If some SE wants to use CEO instead, it does not mean he's being uppity any more than the old guard, Banana Republic scout leader with 15 rows of knots on his uniform. :) Stosh
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#15 baggss

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 01:20 PM

BUT!.... if you had all week, you could probably actually finish the MB's ... on-site even. It's a bit of a stretch, but I think it can be done. Just bring a fake fire with the lightbulb in it, have the boys sit around and sing songs after 8 hours of sitting in a chair studying Citizenship. Sounds like a wonderful opportunity for the boys. If this catches on, the 1 Day MB Colleges would become obsolete and the boys could get to Eagle 5 times faster. Just think of the possibilities. This way the boys can earn Eagle while being a Boy Scout, that is before they are forced to go into Venturing at age 14. Stosh

they go into venturing at 14 because regular scouting has become an extension of school, the ideals pitched to them when they were cubs and webelos have come to naught.
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#16 Lurking...

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Posted 31 January 2015 - 11:14 PM

National promised these kids adventure... maybe it's time the create a program that does that. A scout is trustworthy, that should start at the top. Stosh
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#17 Jtauschmann

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 12:32 PM

Hello to my fellow Scouters, I am assistant scoutmaster and Eagle Scout (2000) from 3 Harbors. As you have read the council has moved to close our camps. Though their decision will prove disaterous and ultimately lead to the closure of our southern camps as well who are currently running enormous deficits. I invite you to visit our Facebook group you will see unlike so many councils who have been forced to close their camps you will see through our business plan our group has established that their decision was not only flawed but wrong. Please examine our business plan posted on our Facebook page.

https://www.facebook...oodsExperience/



Our Plan

It is the mission of Save the Three Harbors Northern Camps Experience to support and promote camping based on youth leadership and the patrol method in the tradition of Lord Robert Baden-Powell. Additionally, we feel that council ownership of a northern camp experience is critical to the long-term success of scouting in the Three Harbors Council.

It is our recommendation to the council that the decision to close one of the northern camps is deferred for two years while we implement our plan, giving us enough time to prove it is viable. We chose LeFeber Northwoods Camps (LNC) as that camp because it has higher usage, larger capacity and more facilities that meet current NCAP standards. We recognize that Robert S. Lyle Scout Reservation is a wonderful place with many happy memories, but we cannot justify keeping two camps.

Our plan has an immediate positive financial impact. According to the new 2017 accounting standards, LNC finished the 2014-year with a $28,216 deficit. This is the smallest camp loss under these standards, as Lyle lost $38,865, Oh-Da-Ko-Ta lost $85,371, and Indian Mound lost $204,907. By combining campers from LNC and Lyle, LNC has the potential to earn significant money based on the 2017 accounting standards. From a survey we conducted, the majority of Lyle troops have indicated a willingness to switch to LNC if the camp offered an open program, which can be implemented immediately. Both our survey and the council’s survey confirmed that distance is not a factor for 90 percent of troops.

Our group will promote all of the Council camps in new ways to Scouts and potential Scouts. We will show parents and their boys exactly what they will do and where they will go when joining a Three Harbors unit. We have plans to start new programs at minimal or no expense to the camp which will retain and attract troops. These programs include fishing, shooting, high adventure and forestry programs, amongst others. LNC is also already equipped to handle a limited dining hall option for some troops.

Our volunteers have already received commitments from donors for camp enhancement and deferred maintenance. We are ready to utilize new funding sources including crowdfunding, and will arrange for volunteers to help with labor. This will be done without diverting any funds from the southern camps, which we would also work for.

Together, we have the knowledge, skills, and willingness to make this happen. Please join us as we make the Three Harbors Northern camp experience a reality for future generations.

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#18 eagle90

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 02:25 PM

Very well thought out and well done response. Having spent 17 summers at LNC, I only hope it does not fall on deaf ears. Please keep this forum apprised of the progress and outcome. Dale
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#19 SSScout

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 11:18 PM

Eagle90 and Jtauschmann: That stuff about better promotion and utilization is what is always missing when a Council decides to sell a camp. And that is what you must INSIST on. There are always more, unthought of uses for the camp. Nature study. University bio classes. Forestry preserve. Public School field trips (any "outdoor ed" in your state?). Our church camp found that we had a rare species of orchid growing on our mountain side: Presto! the state gave the camp a VERY respectable cash buy out to protect the site "in perpetuity". Movie location? I know there is a State film promotion office. Where does your OA hold it's Ordeal? Cooperation with state park activities. Any archeological possibilities? History? Mills? Mines? Lumbering? Railroading? Where is IOLS held? Archery Camp Range Safety Officer training? Use the camp grounds! Be creative! Maybe you could sell a cellphone tower site for some continuing income. Civil Air Patrol often looks for training sites. Girl Scouts need a camp site? Got an extra week? Might be a church is looking for a "Retreat Center". Yoga training?
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#20 kfred987

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Posted 17 March 2015 - 08:11 AM

Here is the link to the project website for Save the Three Harbors Northern Camps Experience. Please check it out. Click on the link in the body of the message, for some reason, posting the same link in the URL section renders it inoperable.

http://lefebernorthw...?fb_ref=Default

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