Jump to content



Photo
- - - - -

There is more to High Adventure than Philmont, SeaBase and Northern Tier!


  • Please log in to reply
18 replies to this topic

#1 baggss

baggss

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 64 posts

Posted 29 November 2014 - 12:07 PM

I've been to 4 "High Adventure" Seminars in the last 2 years, All turned ended up as time-share type sales pitches for philmont, $ea Base and Northern Tier. What was touted as a program to discuss options for crew adventures was nothing but how you really $hould go to the$e three, Out of the entire US of A and thats all there is?
  • 0

#2 oddball

oddball

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 43 posts

Posted 29 November 2014 - 01:50 PM

Why there's the Summit also! Yes, these camps are really pricey. But they cost a lot to maintain and operate. Try planning a week long trip for your crew which will give them ALL of the options provided by a high adventure camp, whether or not they use them all, and you may begin to understand.
  • 0

#3 Eagle94-A1

Eagle94-A1

    Been there. Done that.

  • Members
  • 1778 posts

Posted 29 November 2014 - 07:56 PM

There are local council HA bases you can go to. PAMLICO SEA BASE outside Washington, NC is one that focuses on sailing and kayaking. And there are many others. Also you can always have your troop plan their own HA trip. Appalachian Trail is popular in my neck of the woods, but also look at canoe treks and sailing cruises. As a Boy Scout, I did a 64 mile canoe trek in the Canadian wilderness. As a Sea Scout, I did a week long cruise with my ship. More work is involved in planning it, but they are cheaper.
  • 0

#4 qwazse

qwazse

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 6381 posts

Posted 30 November 2014 - 08:19 AM

Make sure your complaint goes to the course instructor. Venturing will collapse if the only vision presented to crews is of BSA HA bases. One of the "big four" is a fine goal for about every 1 in 10 crews, at most. The rest of us might have a group of kids with that cohesive interest and will to pay for it once every five years. More likely, you have one or two scouts who can't get their buddies interested, and will need you to connect them with another crew who is looking to fill their contingent. Break out a map and brochures of your state, maybe a neighboring state or two. Put it on the table with your crew. Highlight some of the features on the map (parks, water, monuments, trails, concert venues, etc ...). Then leave a calender with a set of weeks that you and your co-advisor think you can get time off for in the next coming year. Leave the room and tell them your coming back in a half hour and want a list of three target locations, times, activities and activity chairs who will be accountable for doing research by the next meeting. Figure out how much prep will be needed, schedule with enough time to plan conditioning, fundraising, skills/gear acquisition, etc ... Let us know what they come up with. P.S. - You could tell them that an advisor in Pittsburgh thinks their plan should include at least a few days in the Porkies. ;)
  • 0

#5 RememberSchiff

RememberSchiff

    Your Friendly Neighborhood ModeratorMan

  • Moderators
  • 2573 posts

Posted 30 November 2014 - 11:01 AM

All turned ended up as time-share type sales pitches...

Hah, very good analogy. Very few, less than a handful in ten years, from our troop have attended any of the National HA camps. The rest, including my sons, decided to be thrifty - shop local and save their money for college. Local council high adventure camps are more affordable.

Alaska Ultimate High Adventure http://scoutingalask...high-adventure/
North Idaho High Adventure - http://www.nwscouts....e-program/23243
Maine High Adventure - http://mainehighadventure.org/

Some OA Camp Guides have a complete list or try your luck with Google.
  • 0

#6 DuctTape

DuctTape

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 551 posts

Posted 30 November 2014 - 12:58 PM

"High Adventure" doesn't require paying someone to plan, organize and guide. If the scouts (patrols or crews) have been doing scouting adventure by planning and organizing, then doing so for the next level of high adventure is the next logical step. It saddens me that scouting has moved from scouts making their own gear, finding places to camp, and organizing their own adventures to needing to raise money to pay for expensive hi-tech stuff, and extra gadgets and paying for expensive camps and guides. Sad when an eagle scout doesn't know how to plan and organize a basic camping trip without paying someone to do it for them. A Scout is thrifty.
  • 0

#7 SSScout

SSScout

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3968 posts

Posted 30 November 2014 - 05:04 PM

And Lenhoksin... http://www.ncacbsa.o...19323&id=282479 and http://www.scoutcamp.../lenhoksin.html
  • 0

#8 Eagle94-A1

Eagle94-A1

    Been there. Done that.

  • Members
  • 1778 posts

Posted 30 November 2014 - 05:45 PM

"High Adventure" doesn't require paying someone to plan, organize and guide. If the scouts (patrols or crews) have been doing scouting adventure by planning and organizing, then doing so for the next level of high adventure is the next logical step. True, but sometimes the guides can be FUN! :p When I did the Canadian trip, we had a Canadian Scout troop provide us guides. We had a lot of fun, and a few years later, I was able to return the favor and be a guide for them. It saddens me that scouting has moved from scouts making their own gear, finding places to camp, and organizing their own adventures to needing to raise money to pay for expensive hi-tech stuff, and extra gadgets and paying for expensive camps and guides. Blame some of that on BSA legal. Some of the simplest, and lightest, equipment to make are some of the various can stoves. Heck the CS leader How To Book even had instructions on how to make them. Now they are verboten. One thing about gear and expense, yard sales, ebay, craigslist, military surplus, etc are great sources. Key is take care of the gear. As one of SPLs would say, "Take care of your gear like you would take care of your girlfriend. Treat it right and you will will have a long health relationship." Sad when an eagle scout doesn't know how to plan and organize a basic camping trip without paying someone to do it for them. A Scout is thrifty. Agree 110%.
  • 0

#9 resqman

resqman

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 593 posts

Posted 30 November 2014 - 11:09 PM

I have earned my Triple Crown. Been a participant of Philmont, Sea Base (twice) and Northern Tier. Son has been a participant of Northern Tier and Philmont. His patrol took scuba lessons locally and planned a week long dive adventure to the Bahamas. Dived minimum 3 times a day plus night dives. Did not earn the Triple Crown because they planned a trip outside of Sea Base. He doesn't care he doesn't have the triple crown patch. He just remembers the fun of the adventure. The rest of his life he can tell stories about diving for a week in the Bahamas. Think anyone will ask or care that is was not thru Sea Base? As a lad, my Explorer Post spent spring break at Shiloh National Battlefield. We hiked every trail there and earned the Veteran Hiker award. No one asks or cares that it is not a BSA National High Adventure Base. I remember the fun and challenge. High Adventure is doing something besides a weekend campout. It is planning, preparing and participating in an adventure. Patches and recognition are secondary. During the planning, traveling, and participating, the scouts will be challenged. They will learn and grow. They will have something to look back on years later. Don't let the big 3 national HA bases limit you and your scouts. There are lots of places the scouts can plan to visit for a week or more and test themselves. The national bases are fun and challenging. Within the scouting world, they are recognized and other scouts will give you respect because you have been. Over a lifetime, planning and executing a high adventure outside of the high adventure bases will be at least if not more memorable to the lads. Don't be afraid to look outside the big 3.
  • 0

#10 oddball

oddball

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 43 posts

Posted 01 December 2014 - 04:54 AM

I'm guessing I'm not the only guy over 50 on here... Yes, you (or our boys, right?) can plan outside of a designated HA base, but will it really happen? Or do we start downplaying the importance of HA bases? I work with a 40 year old Eagle who, until I mentioned it, had never heard of Philmont. His boyhood troop had camped at one of two local BSA camps, and hiked a local National Forest as a HA type adventure.
  • 0

#11 qwazse

qwazse

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 6381 posts

Posted 01 December 2014 - 09:37 AM

Not quite over 50 ... on the bubble. ;) And "my HA" (motivated somewhat from learning about minimum impact camping from Jambo) before going off to college was a week-long 50-miler across our county with my SM and two other scouts.

... Yes, you (or our boys, right?) can plan outside of a designated HA base, but will it really happen? ...


Of course! And it should be the norm. The pinnacle scouting experience is hiking and camping independently with your buddies.

Venturers are a little less independent because of the co-ed thing and societal norms, but more than that, I find older youth and young adults really crave interaction with caring older adults.

At any "how to HA" course, Scouters should be instructed on coaching kids in planning, gear prep, fitness prep, guide/outfitter selection, and budgeting. Then as an aside: "By the way, for a large chunck of change and reservation a year or more in advance, BSA offers ...."


The hardest part, really, is to get youth with diverse interests to find a week or two throughout the year that they are willing to share.

... Or do we start downplaying the importance of HA bases? ...

Not downplaying, clarifying. HA Bases/Jambo exist to inspire a minority of scouts to acquire new skills and challenge their units to do the same.
  • 0

#12 LeCastor

LeCastor

    Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 808 posts

Posted 01 December 2014 - 12:36 PM


P.S. - You could tell them that an advisor in Pittsburgh thinks their plan should include at least a few days in the Porkies. ;)


Our Troop sent the Venture Patrol to the Porcupine Mountains for a week-long backpacking outing two summers ago. They had excellent things to say about it and I know it was much cheaper than going to Sea Base, which they did do the following summer.

As far as the OP goes, I agree that there are plenty of things that Scouts and Venturers can do for High Adventure. But the experience of Philmont, Sea Base, or Northern Tier can be wonderful. While Troops shouldn't get bogged down in the idea that it's Philmont or nothing, I think a trek should at least be considered.
  • 0

#13 jpstodwftexas

jpstodwftexas

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 809 posts

Posted 04 December 2014 - 12:12 AM

Anyone here besides me...been in a Scouting Unit do a Rim to Rim at the Grand Canyon.....I did that well before I ever heard of Philmont.. Just learned of KISC last year...and I was stationed overseas in Europe :( There are plenty of High Adventure at State and National Parks. And There is Now Swampbase.....but Like The Majority of BSA CAmps which provide "planned" Treks with set activities..it requires advanced planning and commitment
  • 0

#14 MattR

MattR

    Member

  • Members
  • 932 posts

Posted 04 December 2014 - 04:18 PM

Anyone here besides me...been in a Scouting Unit do a Rim to Rim at the Grand Canyon.


We did that for a high adventure trip. Three nights in the canyon. Two groups started at either rim and exchanged keys in the middle. The cool thing was there were no other people on the trail that age. Everyone we met thought it was great. Hiking up the North side at sunrise is incredibly beautiful.

We have two high adventure trips a year. One is allowed to be expensive (~Philmont cost) and one must be inexpensive ($200 - $300). Scouts can easily raise that much in a year.
  • 0

#15 packsaddle

packsaddle

    Senior Member

  • Moderators
  • 8682 posts

Posted 04 December 2014 - 08:41 PM

Way, way over 50 here Oddball, when I was a boy we also didn't know those HA bases existed. Like your coworker's troop, our troop created our own HA experience every summer. From a boy's perspective, adventure can occur in a multitude of ways in a multitude of places. It doesn't have to be expensive or even all that far from home for most of us. What would happen to the triple crown? What does the answer really matter if boys are having adventures other ways in other places?
  • 0

#16 qwazse

qwazse

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 6381 posts

Posted 05 December 2014 - 10:12 AM

... We have two high adventure trips a year. One is allowed to be expensive (~Philmont cost) and one must be inexpensive ($200 - $300). Scouts can easily raise that much in a year.


Matt, is this in addition to summer camp? Are you the adult leader for every trip? I'm wondering because for me, the hardest part of being a crew advisor (and I think my co-advisor would agree) is setting aside those vacation days when we also have to support kids in college. Working extra to balance budgets is a bit of an issue, but the family is expecting to be home during breaks, older kids are getting married, etc ...
  • 0

#17 MattR

MattR

    Member

  • Members
  • 932 posts

Posted 05 December 2014 - 11:01 AM


Matt, is this in addition to summer camp? Are you the adult leader for every trip? I'm wondering because for me, the hardest part of being a crew advisor (and I think my co-advisor would agree) is setting aside those vacation days when we also have to support kids in college. Working extra to balance budgets is a bit of an issue, but the family is expecting to be home during breaks, older kids are getting married, etc ...


Yes, we also have summer camp, but no, I don't go on everything. I usually pick one event. While I'd love to go on every trip, and make every campout a 3 day weekend, it ain't so. I have a big troop and dads that like the outdoors. We have two HA trips because most are limited to 12 people and we have more than 12 that want to go. If we have two inexpensive trips then a lot of scouts want to go on both. There's an age, around 16, where there are scouts that go on everything. They really enjoy the week long trips. That's the hook that keeps kids in my troop. When I talk to scouts that age out about good memories, most of them are high adventure, so I push high adventure.
  • 0

#18 baggss

baggss

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 64 posts

Posted 12 January 2015 - 02:04 PM

Porcupines eh? the wifes family is from harrisburg, There is a few Suggestions I never considered, It seems that quite a few crew leaders are to myopic to see past the HA brochures and discover whats around them. Also councel seems to quietly dicourage independance. I Guess i'm just discouraged every time I go to one of those and its the same old same old... .... yeah, I know, just don't go... but Maybe the next one...
  • 0

#19 TAHAWK

TAHAWK

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2812 posts

Posted 17 January 2015 - 07:13 PM

Units I have been commissioned in have gone to the Sea Base and Philmont multiple times. They have also done troop high adventures to Canada, White Mountains, Rockies, Isle Royale, and several long trails in western PA. All good. The troop adventures, as noted, were much more economical and required more Scout planning. (Porkies? That makes me recall the camp raiders banging the pots and pans every half hour at one of our campsites on the Mattawa - where I finally met No-See-Ems.)
  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users


IPB Skin By Virteq