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How much money in the Troop Treasury?


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#61 Eagledad

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 02:36 PM

Managing money for a volunteer organization is as much a learning experience as learning to manage a boy run program. And, managing funds for a troop of five scouts is nothing like managing money for a troop of 50 in a single patrol method troop program of independent patrols. It just isn't the same. As the adult side grows and matures with patrol method in a large troop growing larger every year, the units philosophy of funds and savings will change as well because experience tends to push toward improving and streamlining the process. This goes as much for the scouts as the adults. 

 

My advice in these kinds of matters is for the adults to sit down and discuss what life lesson they want the scouts to experience. Then work from there. How does the troop expect to raise funds and how will the money be distributed among the scouts, troop, equipment, and so on. Each program is different. I have yet to see a troop that didn't change part of the process every couple of years to accommodate for changing needs. Our troop grew from 15 to 100 in seven years. Managing money in a boy run program that large requires understanding of goals and process of applying the funds because the unit that size handles A LOT of money. Whether it's the patrols or the adults doing most of the managing, everyone (parents included) needs to be on board of the process. 

 

Barry


Edited by Eagledad, 13 July 2017 - 03:10 PM.

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#62 Stosh

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 02:49 PM

Of course logistics of geographic concerns play into the model, but the one thing I do like about it (and it does work after proper training) is that the scouts need to step up and take possession of the process.  Even when I got up to about 30 scouts, things went quite smoothly.  The SPL (former APL of one of the patrols) did a great job of taking care of his PL's who were focused on their patrol QM's and each of the 4 areas where the patrols were collecting personal and patrol equipment.  The storage area wasn't that far into the building so it was easy for 2 patrols to form a bucket brigade of stored equipment to the pickup and trailer.  The other 2 patrols were assigned one to the pickup and one to the trailer and they were guided by their patrol QM's on how to load.  A patrol QM on each end of the bucket brigade line kept things flowing. 

 

Once the stored equipment was loaded the line would move to each patrol area and clean that up pretty quickly.

 

If everyone showed up on time and staged the equipment properly, the could load in about 15-20 minutes and another 10 minutes to throw a tarp over the trailer and tie it down.  Late arrivals had their equipment stored in the passenger vehicles and they were responsible for it by themselves.  We didn't have a Troop QM, the Patrol QM took turns coordinating it.  It kinda spread the learning out to more boys.

 

Upon arrival (and after many attempts) the process was reversed at the activity and the gear was unpacked and put into patrol locations with the PL's making sure the got all the equipment for their boys.  Then in the middle of camp, the stored equipment was unloaded and the patrol QM's were responsible for sorting through it to get the stored equipment needed for their patrol.  Once that was done (usually quite quickly) the boys were then to set up camp.

 

At first I was there to teach, but eventually the boys figured it out and kept to the process quite well.  There were a lot of "tense moments" when certain equipment wasn't divvied up according to what the boys thought fair so I ended up being a referee.  The SPL eventually took over that process.  If Patrol A got the good stove and Patrol B got the bummer stove, there was nothing wrong with Patrol B raising funds to buy a new stove and put their patrol logo on it and that eventually ended the hassles.

 

I try and incorporate the patrol method into everything the boys are responsible for.  I always go with an adult is not to do anything in the troop the boys are capable of doing for themselves.  While it doesn't take as much time and effort as it does to put together an Eagle project, each of these little processes goes a long way to prepare the older boys for those Eagle projects.

 

If the adults are doing it all for the boys, I see down the road to the Eagle candidate never having the opportunity to plan, develop and lead is going to find the Eagle project a new experience instead of "old hat".

 

As SM it's my job to create opportunities for the boys to learn and grow, not take them away and do it myself.

 

By the way, the convenience factor doesn't bode well with me.  I want my scouts to have hands on elbow grease in the process.  It's how they learn.


Edited by Stosh, 13 July 2017 - 02:51 PM.

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#63 Stosh

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 03:18 PM

Managing money for a volunteer organization is as much a learning experience as learning to manage a boy run program. And, managing funds for a troop of five scouts is nothing like managing money for a troop of 50 in a single patrol method troop program of independent patrols. It just isn't the same. As the adult side grows and matures with patrol method in a large troop growing larger every year, the units philosophy of funds and savings will change as well because experience tends to push toward improving and streamlining the process. This goes as much for the scouts as the adults. 

 

My advice in these kinds of matters is for the adults to sit down and discuss what life lesson they want the scouts the experience. Then work from there. How does the troop expect to raise funds and how will the money be distributed among the scouts, troop, equipment, and so on. Each program is different. I have yet to see a troop that didn't change part of the process every couple of years to accommodate for changing needs. Our troop grew from 15 to 100 in seven years. Managing money in a boy run program that large requires understanding of goals and process of applying the funds because the unit that size handle A LOT of money. Whether it's the patrols or the adults doing most of the managing, everyone (parents included) needs to be on board of the process. 

 

Barry

 

This is why the patrol method is so important.  As we grew from 5 to 30, it was difficult for 1 Troop Scribe to handle it all.  Thus each patrol had a Scribe so he was responsible for just the fiances of his patrol.   All the Patrol Scribes would meet and develop the budget for the outing under the guidance of the SPL.  Then the collection of funds was up to them.  If the Patrol QM needed some equipment, he would pass that on to the Scribe who would submit a purchase order from the patrol funds.  (All funds raised was 1/2 to the troop and 1/2 to the patrols.  We had no ISA's.)  As the troop grew so did the Scribe "committee".  We never got so big that a Troop Scribe became necessary and the ultimate financial concern/liaison with the Troop Committee treasurer fell to the SPL.  

 

As the troop would grow, so would the QM "committee" of Patrol QM's and the Scribe "Committee" of Patrol Scribes.  No one person had an overwhelming job that needed to be taken over by an adult.

 

This whole process was developed out of the GBB patrol method instruction where everyone in the patrol had a job to do, was trained in it and coordinated with others.

 

:)  With all the boys doing different "jobs" it became apparent to the adults that there were not many boys just standing around with their hands in their pockets.  They said I was expecting too much leadership out of the boys and was asked to step down as SM.  The troop quickly went back to the adults doing all the leadership.  

 

With my new troop, we have our starting 5 boys, each with a patrol POR.  They are learning and all under the age of 12.  The bucket brigade line is pretty short, but they get the idea.  They will learn and they will pass that experience on to the next boys.  For those who think that the older boys should be teaching the younger boys and not have patrols broken down by age/interest, it's pretty hard not to interact with others in the brigade line or loading trailers correctly as a "troop" activity.  

 

It may not work for those inclined to have a lot of adult supervision, but with a little patience, the boys do figure it out eventually and the number of "tense moments" while drinking coffee from afar, diminish. 


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#64 Eagledad

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 03:26 PM

  

 

It may not work for those inclined to have a lot of adult supervision, but with a little patience, the boys do figure it out eventually and the number of "tense moments" while drinking coffee from afar, diminish. 

I'm comfortable with the lessons I learned from our patrol method program. But as always, I will be open minded when you report back to us after a few years experience of scoutmastering 50 or more scouts.

 

Barry


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#65 Stosh

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 03:48 PM

30 has been my experience.

 

However, my first troop was about 50 and I was an ASM.  It was adult led on steroids and the SM and I had the longest tenure in the troop.  Of course I was only 1 of 12 ASM's for the 50 boys because the boys did nothing except what they were told to do by an adult.  The patrols were in name only and ad hoc rearranged for just about every event.  POR's were pencil whipped after the time for requirements was met.

 

While my experience with 50 was beneficial, it did teach me one thing, boy led, patrol method is the only route to go.

 

And by the way, my troop of 30 had a hands on staff of 1 SM and 1 ASM.  The boys did the rest of running the troop.


Edited by Stosh, 13 July 2017 - 03:50 PM.

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#66 blw2

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Posted 14 July 2017 - 09:26 AM

I would argue that the need for a trailer depends on the size of your troop. For my unit we average 40-50 guys per camp out. Even if we are backpacking we need space to haul those packs. Not everyone has an SUV or luggage rack like I do. I can take 6 guys and packs in my set up, but many guys still have sedans.

 

So unless we require Scouters to have large SUVs -- or we do like my troop did when I was a kid and buy a school bus, renovate it and get all the Scouters to get their Class C license -- the trailer is the next best thing to support our outdoor program.

well put.  Size of troop....but also "style" of troop.  If one has the whole stock of several huge chuck-boxes, and all sorts of other equipment that gets lugged out every time, THAT is very different than a troop that is promoting ultralight backpacking (where not that you would want to, but could almost get away with each boy holding their own stuff in their laps and no need at all even for trunk space)

 

 

 

My second troop I was associated with had a trailer..... we never used it not even for storage.  For convenience sake, we as adults, often rob the boys of some good life lessns/experiences that will make them better as they get older.

 

 

Now that I agree on!  I do like a whole lot of what you outlined stosh.   I can only imagine, since I have never experienced a troop like that, but I do believe the scouts would generally have a lot more fun with a program like that too!

 

 

and this discussion also circles my thinking back around to BP's own self limitation on the max ideal troop size


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#67 Col. Flagg

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Posted 14 July 2017 - 09:39 AM

well put.  Size of troop....but also "style" of troop.  If one has the whole stock of several huge chuck-boxes, and all sorts of other equipment that gets lugged out every time, THAT is very different than a troop that is promoting ultralight backpacking (where not that you would want to, but could almost get away with each boy holding their own stuff in their laps and no need at all even for trunk space)

 

Event doing ultralight backpacking it is tough getting 6 guys and their packs in a Sequoia, but I manage. However, half our parents have sedans and can fit maybe 3 packs in their trunk. They don't have luggage racks, so those other packs need to go somewhere. ;)

 

Usually we can manage with a few of these but that's an investment the parents have to make and they have their own draw backs. We've found hauling the trailer as a base station has been the cheapest, most convenient option for 50+ ultralight backpackers.


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#68 Stosh

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Posted 14 July 2017 - 07:15 PM

Col. Flagg

 

I'm sure you are just jerking my chain.  I find it hard to believe that a troop in Texas of 50 scouts can't find a pickup truck!  :) 


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Stosh

 

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#69 blw2

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 09:25 AM

ha ha...yeah, we recently took a family RV trip out to the grand canyon.   I forget where we were exactly.... I think in TX...but drove past a few car dealerships and I had to laugh out loud...and point out to the family how many more pickups were on the lot as compared to cars.  It was really striking!


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#70 Col. Flagg

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 09:35 AM

Col. Flagg

 

I'm sure you are just jerking my chain.  I find it hard to believe that a troop in Texas of 50 scouts can't find a pickup truck!  :)

 

Depends. Inside the DFW area most of the yuppie adults drive Infinity or Lexus...and nothing that will hold or haul anything of consequence. 

 

I have the Tundra 1794 Edition so I can haul or hold most stuff. Have a Sequoia as back up. 

 

ha ha...yeah, we recently took a family RV trip out to the grand canyon.   I forget where we were exactly.... I think in TX...but drove past a few car dealerships and I had to laugh out loud...and point out to the family how many more pickups were on the lot as compared to cars.  It was really striking!

 

If you drove through OK you'd see more pick ups...but smaller. ;)


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#71 Eagledad

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 09:39 AM

 

Usually we can manage with a few of these but that's an investment the parents have to make and they have their own draw backs. We've found hauling the trailer as a base station has been the cheapest, most convenient option for 50+ ultralight backpackers.

We have a small trailer donated for our high adventure trips. We found that the gear coming home smells so bad, a trailer is preferred. :blink:

 

Barry


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#72 Col. Flagg

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 09:49 AM

We have a small trailer donated for our high adventure trips. We found that the gear coming home smells so bad, a trailer is preferred. :blink:

 

Barry

 

At Philmont last year we were lucky to run everything through their laundry before departure. The one guys who said he washed his clothes (but didn't) had his pack strapped to the top of the truck.

 

The Crew Lead insisted on fully laundered clothes and showered bodies for the ride home. Good man!


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#73 blw2

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Posted 18 July 2017 - 08:25 AM

I still think that in a way it would be great if it were more logistically feasible to get a troop bus, personally....

Reduce stress over having enough drivers and seats....

all the scouts can ride together and be together during the sometimes long drives.... could even do patrol meetings etc on the move!  More fun and productive at the same time....

and if it's a big bus there's lots of room in the basement!


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#74 Col. Flagg

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Posted 18 July 2017 - 08:35 AM

I still think that in a way it would be great if it were more logistically feasible to get a troop bus, personally....

 

My troop had one growing up. My dad was the TC chair. Between getting enough drivers to get their special license, state regulation, regular maintenance and a few other issues, he said it was a great idea but quite laborious to maintain. In the end it was simply easier to beg for drivers and tow a trailer.


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