Whither the Boy Scout Uniform?

[LeCastor 641]

To borrow a construction from SeattlePioneer...

 

Where is the Boy Scout uniform going? We have many different pants/shorts that don't match. There are at least two different kinds of shirts. Forget about hats...How many are there now?

 

So we have those who think the ODLR uniform was emasculating, useless, not rugged, etc.

 

The Centennial Uniform is worse...

 

Ok, so what should the Boy Scout uniform be? It's okay to be specific...

[perdidochas 658]

I like the Centennial uniform. It's comfortable enough to wear outside of ceremonial occasions. I especially like the zip-offs.

[blw2 433]

I don't mind the Centennial. Don't love the zip-offs since the zipper falls right at the knee and the added bulk there rubs when walking, but they work. I didn't think I would, but I like my microfiber shirt (except don't like the look of the huge cape vent on the back...). Not sure what it's called, but I don't think they make it anymore....

 

I honestly see no reason to not wear it for every event we do, but the vast majority of our adults will push the T-Shirt at any opportunity. And since to 99.9% of the folks at least in my pack the T-shirt means only the shirt with whatever pants they want to wear.... we end up looking like a hodge podge public school class out on a field trip.... no scratch that..... they at least all wear their field trip shirts!

 

I am uniform guy. I buy into the unfirming method, and I like the connection to the past with the universally recognizable uniform. The centennial fits the bill close enough I think..... personally I would like to stick to the tradition uniform look.....

BUT yielding to popular opinion.....

I am interested in in something nicer than a T-Shirt but maybe something a bit more casual for the schlepping non-uniformers we have. Get rid of the T-Shirt all together. And replace the field uniform with something else.

It needs to have a method for displaying rank and awards (although I am finding the boys aren't really motivated by awards so that's minor)

I saw once something like a polo/golf shirt... was it from Canada, or England, or??? anyway like a nice golf shirt with small insignia that could be sewn on the sleeves, etc... The one I remember was a long sleeve rugby type shirt, with merit badges sewn on the lower sleeve. Maybe an idea for the scouts in cooler weather. I'm imagining a short sleeve version here in the South..... smaller insignia, awards, and patches sewn on the breast and the back sort of like the way Girl Scouts do with their vest???.

 

 

[desertrat77 1144]

The problem with many uniforms--BSA and otherwise--is that they are designed by people that aren't physically active in the organization any more (headquarters-types) and then field tested by people who are closely connected with and highly committed to the organization. I saw this in the military, too.

 

The result? Group think. "Gosh, that's a great uniform!" When it really isn't.

 

When the uniform is fielded, the rest of the organization has their say. If they don't like it? Well, too late and tough luck. Criticize it and you are labeled a malcontent and a half-stepper. Then the uniform is looked down upon, not worn properly, worn hodge-podge, or not worn at all. And the public snickers when they see it worn.

 

The key components for a good BSA uniform? In no order of precedence:

- Affordable

- Rugged

- Appeals to wearers' pride

- Tells the public "this is an outdoor organization"

 

If National picked a group of a) random and b) active-in-the-outdoors scouts and scouters, and turned them loose on the internet and/or in a big outdoors store, they could assemble a good-looking, functional uniform pretty quick. There are clothes out there already that fit the bill for scouting use. Why reinvent the wheel?

[st0ut717 144]

@desertrat Fully concur have the bsa go to llbean bass pro shop. Pick out a good military outdoors outfit and say make this is in youth sizes.

[st0ut717 144]

Do an episode of project runway and let a youth Eagle Scout be on the judging panel Ok you guys know my guilty show.

[qwazse 4342]

...If National picked a group of a) random and b) active-in-the-outdoors scouts and scouters' date=' and turned them loose on the internet and/or in a big outdoors store, they could assemble a good-looking, functional uniform pretty quick. There are clothes out there already that would fit the bill for scouting use. Why reinvent the wheel?[/quote']

 

Why? Branding. Fashion shifts. So tomorrow's focus group defined by your a+b criteria will look down the nose at today's focus group's decision. Part of the "reinvention" is to "lock in" a brand.

 

Personally, I'd be fine if BSA got out of the pants business. Focus on the shirt and a variety of standard issue under-gear ... including socks. Publish a standard color scheme for pants, but that's it.

 

Require a necker for all program levels, but strictly if it meets minimum size requirements. Make it the minimum requirement for being considered "in uniform." Do not require a slide, allow it to be knotted loosely a. la. the rest of the world's scouts. Promote its use for throwing down challenges, claiming a facility, trading at camporees, etc ...

 

Can we move beyond epaulets?

 

Replace the Jambo patch with an award that represents the true pinnacle scouting experience: e.g., a constellation patch with star devices for patrol/crew overnights independent of adults.

[desertrat77 1144]

 

 

Why? Branding. Fashion shifts. So tomorrow's focus group defined by your a+b criteria will look down the nose at today's focus group's decision. Part of the "reinvention" is to "lock in" a brand.

 

Personally, I'd be fine if BSA got out of the pants business. Focus on the shirt and a variety of standard issue under-gear ... including socks. Publish a standard color scheme for pants, but that's it.

 

Require a necker for all program levels, but strictly if it meets minimum size requirements. Make it the minimum requirement for being considered "in uniform." Do not require a slide, allow it to be knotted loosely a. la. the rest of the world's scouts. Promote its use for throwing down challenges, claiming a facility, trading at camporees, etc ...

 

Can we move beyond epaulets?

 

Replace the Jambo patch with an award that represents the true pinnacle scouting experience: e.g., a constellation patch with star devices for patrol/crew overnights independent of adults.

 

Qwazse, I'm tracking with you. Regarding fashion, all I can say is anything off the rack at Bass Pro is going to be more fashionable than any current BSA uniform, and will be for a longer period.

 

Concur 100 percent re pants and neckerchiefs.

 

LOL, epaulets! I recall seeing the ODLR for first time in the '80s and particularly those epaulets. This being a family forum, I can't type what I said, suffice to say it wasn't favorable. There is zero need for epaulets in scouting. If someone really wants to know what level you serve at, they can glance at your position patch.

 

Interesting thoughts re the pinnacle patch concept, I like it. Not everyone can go to a jamboree, but any active patrol can camp.

[Sentinel947 1205]

I'm joined when the ODLR was still around, and I now wear the Centennial one. I don't think the uniform needs an overhaul except in the fact that it's not worn outdoors. It's like a military dress uniform almost, that nobody wants to wear it in the field because it will get dirty. I wouldn't mind seeing a return to the old green colors, but now Venturing kinda uses a similar color.

 

I personally don't care if it's fashionable or not. Uniforms in general just aren't fashionable. Giving away your individuality to fit in with a group isn't fashionable. I think the line came up in another thread. "its the Scout in the uniform that matters, not what they wear."

[SeattlePioneer 144]

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To borrow a construction from SeattlePioneer...

>>

 

 

Heh, heh!

 

 

I like it!

 

 

[TAHAWK 1420]

Sorry; pet peeve time: To have uniforming you first need a uniform. We have not had one in generations - since ODLR. And it has gotten worse in recent years. 18 possible combinations of shirt and shorts/trousers in currently sold garments alone . Not to mention no-longer-sold parts still said to be "uniform."

 

1. Shirt.. Tan dark enough not to show every stain.

 

BSA branded shorts, trousers, and socks optional. Encourage all you want: "A Scout is." Stop all the "A Scout is not" stuff. Declare victory.

 

Epaulets as part of drastically reducing the need to sew things on the shirt. Badges of office (that change) - clip on epaulet. Patrol colors (that can change) - clip on epaulet. Temporary patches (that are temporary) - hang on pocket button. Forget the International patch. It used to mean something and is now meaningless. The Jambo patch to be temporary as it is solely for attendance, not accomplishment. That leaves U.S. Flag, CSP (that should not change every six months), OA flap, and Unit number; they can stay on first to last for any given shirt. Or try velcro.

 

2. As a matter of personal prejudice, make a uniform hat (not cap) a part of the Uniform - with a medium floppy brim as BP wanted instead of what the wanna' be Field Marshall wanted. Should cost about $14.99 not $ the $30-40 last time BSA tried and found out (Surprise!) there was not much interest at that 400% of market price.

 

3. Square cotton necker sized to allow it's use instead of just a decoration.

 

 

[st0ut717 144]

We do need a uniform.. I am in favor of a more military uniform and more stringent standards I think of the class a as a dress uniform even though I have only had mine 9 months I don't like cooking ortending a fire in it. So I think a feild uniform is needed bdu in olive drab or dark tan.

[qwazse 4342]

So if you think the field uniform is the dress uni, what in the blue blazers do you think the blue blazer is? In general, when I think "field" I'm thinking parade, flags, and such. When it comes time to play British bulldog, cook, or tend fire, the tan shirt comes off, and IMHO, each patrol should have it's own t-shirt design, although there could be a standard issue which would have ink-pressed patrol name and patch.

[gsdad 59]

The uniform is far from uniform with all the variations. I still see old timers wearing the tassles in their socks. I disagree with going away from uniform pants. IMO jeans, basketball shorts, etc... look second rate and detract from the purpose of wearing a uniform at all.

[desertrat77 1144]

Tahawk, good thoughts, particularly regarding the hat and neckerchief. The broad rim hat used to be a functional item. Then it turned into an expensive parade-ground item, and has fallen into general disuse.

 

Full size neckerchief: a few years ago, I caught everyone napping on ebay and bought an old BSA full size nc for a song. That thing is the most comfortable and functional neckerchief I've seen. But just like the hat, the nc turned into a parade-ground-"open ranks harch" item, where the priority went from a item you can actually use in the field to a quest for perfect rolling when in town. Form trumped function, and folks stopped using these items because they were just decorations.