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Have you heard of a Scout Patrol that doesn't like to camp?


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#21 scoutergipper

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 06:51 PM

It just blows my mind that a group of kids would join Boy Scouts, and then stay in it for a year or two, if they didn't like to camp. I also don't understand how it could become optional. It seems like the pressure of the expectations of the rest of the Troop would cause this group to either start camping, or leave to find another activity they liked. This is not to say that Scouts is for everyone. I tell people all the time I think Scouting would be of great benefit to any boy/family that gives it a try with the right attitude. But the reality is that not everyone can muster the attitude or open mind. Some are always going to allow some part of the program - the mud, the patriotism, the chaos - to get in the way of what the program really is.
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#22 qwazse

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 07:34 PM

... But it's not outing and "Scouting without outing...". Well, you know ...


Is still Super Cool!

{What you all are about to read is from the guy who will find a picnic table in a field before sleeping in the troop's cabin and will only bother with a tarp if it's rainy or the oaks are dropping acorns. So anybody who wants to throw stones just better be aware that my house probably has less glass than yours.}

Don't beat yourself up on this one. Outing is not always camping. It's often pushing comfort zones by starting with the familiar. This means we unit leaders have to spend time unlocking the key to a kid's brain. Camping is often an easy sell because most kids equate that with adventure, but citizenship can be an adventure, service can be an adventure, youth ministry can be an adventure, gaming can be an adventure. (I'm hearing gasps. You all can breath.)

Right now, I have to endure a troop and crew who don't want to master orienteering skills. Kinda limits the envelope we can push hiking. Fine. I approve plans where they stick to marked trails and maybe scratch heads over "temporary dislocations." Meanwhile, I still invite any willing adult to orienteering courses for the sake of my personal fits and giggles. I'll hike back-country by dead reckoning with the one young ASM who want's to find the rock feature that is not on any map. And I talk smack to the boys about what they're missing. I didn't figure out this on my own. One day a few years ago, my PL gave me a call, "I was debating with SM about what state the Board Tree Tunnel was in, he said he'd drive me and a buddy there and we could hike around and figure it out."

LeC, this may be the row you have to hoe. Throw the occasional gimmick to draw these boys out of their shells, but generally settle for an infrequent camping schedule. Help your venturers line up a half dozen outings and attend as many of those as you can. Hit them up for ideas that may work the youngn's. Maybe for one or two activities, they will offer to share their campsite.

Most of all DO YOUR OWN THING and make sure everyone knows what that is. A couple of them may come around, and really that's all you need to keep the outdoor skills fresh among the group.
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#23 King Ding Dong

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 08:53 PM

Look at the positives. You are on the vanguard of Scouting and exactly what Natioanl wants. Play your cards right and that patrol will be featured on the cover of Boys Life in no time. Can they make a robot tie a bowline?
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#24 Stosh

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 09:49 PM

One can run a Rogain for 24/7 that could run from Friday night to Sunday noon. Sleeping and camping is optional. Stosh
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#25 LeCastor

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 10:12 PM

I love you guys! You've made this Beaver smile.
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#26 CNYScouter

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Posted 30 October 2014 - 10:52 AM

Last winter I was talking with an adult from another Troop who was just made the unit's membership chair. The Troops numbers were falling and the Pack with the same CO had folded He was looking for ideas on increasing membership A week or so later I ran into the Troop's ex-Sm who had stepped down last year He said he thought this Troop was in trouble because they don't camp None of the Scouts wanted to camp. They scheduled campouts but no one would sign up to go. So it's not just younger Scouts that don't want to camp As to getting the younger scouts to go camping check out the "Just Camping" thread Don't just go camping - have some type of activity planned. It's a fishing trip not a camping trip Go to camporees- they don't have to be your districts or even in your council - if you see something interesting go to it Right know I am trying to figure out how to make "Magic: the Gathering" card game into a live-action contest to do at a campout
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#27 LeCastor

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Posted 30 October 2014 - 01:42 PM

Don't just go camping - have some type of activity planned.
It's a fishing trip not a camping trip
Go to camporees- they don't have to be your districts or even in your council - if you see something interesting go to it

Right know I am trying to figure out how to make "Magic: the Gathering" card game into a live-action contest to do at a campout


Hey, CNY! Yeah, I totally get that and I've always made a point to ask the PLs the following questions:

"Ok, so what do you want to accomplish this weekend? What are you going to do on this trip?:

Green Bar Bill used to say that a hike wasn't a hike if there wasn't a purpose to it. Same goes for camping.

As for "Magic: the Gathering" I've found my Scouts are really into a game called "Munchkin" which I think might be similar.
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#28 LeCastor

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 02:18 PM

UPDATE: None of the members of the young patrol were able to bring themselves to commit to going on the outing they put on their calendar. Honestly, this camping trip was doomed to fail when I found out the PL and APL, both, decided to choose a merit badge clinic--OMG--over leading their patrol to a glorious weekend in the wilderness. :( Good news is they're fired up about an electronics-themed event next month. At least there's that...I guess. :p I'm going to continuing Scouting in the outdoors and all who want to join me may do so. Boom!
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#29 Stosh

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 10:43 AM

UPDATE: None of the members of the young patrol were able to bring themselves to commit to going on the outing they put on their calendar. Honestly, this camping trip was doomed to fail when I found out the PL and APL, both, decided to choose a merit badge clinic--OMG--over leading their patrol to a glorious weekend in the wilderness. :(

Good news is they're fired up about an electronics-themed event next month. At least there's that...I guess. :p

I'm going to continuing Scouting in the outdoors and all who want to join me may do so. Boom!


First of all I would have a bit of a discussion/mentoring/coaching/tirading with the PL and APL about what leadership is all about and reflect those sentiments when it comes to signing off on POR requirements. I have no problem with not signing off when the work isn't done (and my boys know it).

As far as going in the outdoors without them, make sure you don't take pictures and bring back to show them what they missed. There are a few on the forum who think that is a self-esteem buzz kill. It's kinda too bad that my boys don't get any self-esteem stroking in my troop, but they get a ton of self-respect, which is far more valuable in the long run. I've done the invite the boys and go anyway a ton of times. Eventually they will get their toe wet and find out it really is a fun time. Patience, need patience.

Stosh
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#30 LeCastor

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 10:49 AM


First of all I would have a bit of a discussion/mentoring/coaching/tirading with the PL and APL about what leadership is all about and reflect those sentiments when it comes to signing off on POR requirements. I have no problem with not signing off when the work isn't done (and my boys know it).

As far as going in the outdoors without them, make sure you don't take pictures and bring back to show them what they missed. There are a few on the forum who think that is a self-esteem buzz kill. It's kinda too bad that my boys don't get any self-esteem stroking in my troop, but they get a ton of self-respect, which is far more valuable in the long run. I've done the invite the boys and go anyway a ton of times. Eventually they will get their toe wet and find out it really is a fun time. Patience, need patience.

Stosh



Oh, Stosh, you gotta know that sit-down talk is on the docket! I'm not pleased with this merit badge fixation they share to the detriment of their Patrol mates.

I guess I don't understand what you mean in the second part. I should NOT take pictures? What the what?

As for patience...I have a ton of that. I've been patient for a long, long, long time as we move closer and closer to a Troop with two distinct patrols...I can continue to be patient with these anti-outdoors youngsters. ;)
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#31 Stosh

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 11:52 AM



Oh, Stosh, you gotta know that sit-down talk is on the docket! I'm not pleased with this merit badge fixation they share to the detriment of their Patrol mates.

I guess I don't understand what you mean in the second part. I should NOT take pictures? What the what?

As for patience...I have a ton of that. I've been patient for a long, long, long time as we move closer and closer to a Troop with two distinct patrols...I can continue to be patient with these anti-outdoors youngsters. ;)


On another thread, I commented that when the boys back out of an activity I hook up with the Mrs. and we go instead. Taking pictures of all the fun we had, I was told, was like rubbing salt into the wounds and putting down the boys. I also would visit places and take pictures of things I think the boys would be interested in for future activities. That was heavily frowned upon by some, too. I guess handing out travel brochures and BSA literature on high adventure is frowned upon too.

Needless to say I have pretty much ignored such advice.

Also with two groups, why not have the boys realign themselves so that the campers can go with a full contingent and the non-campers can stay home. Sounds like a win/win to me.

While the boys do keep the patrols relatively stable on leadership and membership, there can be changes occurring at any time. There's no such thing as a term of office for anyone and membership is determined by who wants to be with whom. I pretty much stay out of the whole process and it works well for the boys. Pretty much eliminates all the bickering and squabbling.

If implemented, the boys that want to camp would group together and those that didn't would group together. A camper surely would not want to be part of a patrol that didn't camp. The "rules" should be he gets to decide such things.

6-8 boys in a patrol and a PL... Let me know what you decide. If they get 2 weeks into the program and the PL they elected based on popularity turns out to be a dud, then have another election and get someone in there that will do the job. Oh, the PL needed a POR for advancement? Well, he had better start looking around for something else because PL isn't in his future anytime soon.

And how much hassle and hair-pulling does this involve for adults? Absolutely NONE! That's the beauty of the whole thing, the boys have no one to blame but themselves when all hell breaks loose. :)

This way I don't have to go on the forum and ask for help on how to deal with these boys. They have to deal with it themselves, they have more skin in the game than I do.

Stosh

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#32 Scourge

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 11:16 AM

Two Words: Girl Scouts


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#33 CalicoPenn

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 01:22 PM

Except the Girl Scouts camp more often than this Patrol did


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#34 CalicoPenn

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 01:40 PM

I'm glad this thread has been resurrected - I've an additional thought on the attitudes expressed by the boys.  They weren't developed in a vacuum.  I think all of us have horror stories of parents who saw no value in camping, or who had a lot of fear over their sons staying out in a tent overnight.  I'm just surprised that it's taken so long for those attitudes to trickle down to an entire Patrol instead of the ocassional boy here or there.

 

It also ties in, I think, with something disturbing I just read about the closing of Camp Lakota in Woodstock.  For the longest time, this was a primitive camp close to the Council that was usually book every weekend in May and October for District camporees and a great place for individual Troops to spend a weekend - there were often 3 or 4 Troops on the property on any given non-camporee weekend.  It was a great place for Patrol only camping too - there were even some Troops that would reserve 4 or 5 campsites and assiged each to a Patrol with the adults in their own site.  When Webelos were allowed to camp out, a section of the camp was reserved for webelos camping, complete with their own activity shelter.  Later, a winter cabin was put in which was rarely unused on winter weekends.  It was a popular camp - and no one minded the primitive facilities.   Now that the vote has been taken to close the camp, the Council shared with the media some of their reasoning and results on their evaluations.  What struck me is that the best point of the camp is apparently the new swimming pool that was installed 5 years ago.  The second best might be the climbing wall.  The evaluations gave big negatives to the primitive nature of the campsites, with no running water at each site and with primitive facilities (outhouses) in strategic locations outside the sites (and shared with other sites) and to the marsh.  With attitudes like that from the volunteers and national engineering staff who came up with these evaluations, is it any wonder that Scouts don't want to camp anymore?


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#35 Stosh

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 02:59 PM

Paper Eagles anyone?


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#36 Hedgehog

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 04:09 AM

Wow. It's 6:00 am and 39 degrees outside. I'm snug inside my down sleeping bag in a tent. 19 Boys in tents around me all sleeping soundly after a spending yesterday at a Camporee they decided they wanted to go to - seriously, who wouldn't want to this tomahawks? There are four other ASMs with me. We had a blast hanging out in the campsite while the patrols did their thing and then having short ribs and polenta for dinner with apple pie for dessert. At our meeting next week the SPL starts the meeting with calling up the boys who went and asking what the best part of the trip was.

More later ... I've got to go make coffee.
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#37 Stosh

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 09:19 AM

Both my boys bailed on me for this weekend's program.  Mrs. and I went anyway.... Blue sky and sunshine, fantastic fall colors and they bailed on the most beautiful weekend of the year.  


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#38 qwazse

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 09:39 PM

Those boys deserved to be beaten with a stick. Or at least instructed that weekends like this are precious to trade in on anything but scouting.

Son #1 and I have been fuming because our jobs tied us down while DiL was able to free up her extended weekend to go backpacking with here friends in in Dolly Sods.
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#39 perdidochas

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 09:08 AM

Well, that's what I've got right now. As the older Scouts have turned 18 and moved on to college, etc, the younger Scouts coming into my Troop "just aren't that into camping. They put camping trips on their Patrol calendar but when it comes to their Patrol meetings they realize that none of them are going. Many excuses are made as to why camping isn't fun and they'd rather see if anything else comes up. You may recall that I got two Scouts from this Patrol to agree to go camping two weekends ago. That was solely to fulfill First Class requirements and most definitely NOT because they wanted to be out camping. (They actually told me that.). The rest of their Patrol calendar for the year is hockey games, video game nights, and board games. Hiking, camping, and general Green-Bar-Billing is anathema to these youngsters. I guess this is turning into a rant but I guess I just gotta vent...

 

Not a patrol, but I know individual scouts that don't like it. 


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#40 Stosh

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 11:23 AM

Any scout that doesn't like to camp is going to end up being a Paper Eagle at best.  One has to seriously question their motivations as to why they are in the program.  A kid that wants an athletic scholarship to college but hates sports.....  The college graduate that wants to be a business CEO but doesn't like to work.... the seminary graduate that likes to have his weekends free.....

 

How far are we going to cater to these people before we realize how much of our time is being wasted on useless efforts?


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Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)





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