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Vote by peers the only way in?


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#41 Basementdweller

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 08:40 AM

Not everyone said he needs to politic. I think begging, asking or pleading for votes is very contrary for what the OA is supposed to stand for. This lad and more to the point his mom is all about check marks. Well he has earned all of the merit badges but one for eagle, he had gone to the jamboree, he spends an extra week at summer camp. So he will do what most boys do in the OA.......Sash and Dash, line complete check mark
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#42 Sentinel947

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 09:32 AM

BD I didn't realize you knew the OP and her son.
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#43 Basementdweller

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 10:05 AM

Fair enough. But read her post. It is very clearly about keeping score. It isn't about the fall fellowship or the conclave. It is about the pocket flap and the sash. BTW my son was elected chapter chief thursday night.
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#44 perdidochas

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 11:25 AM

From What I read..Scout has been in The Same Troop for 4 Years...Has Achieved First Class Requirement (Life)...Has been Very Active (Missed about 4 Things in 4 Years)...Active in Community Service. Assists Younger Scouts..Etc
Yet Everyone Says he Needs to Politic...A Scouts Politics by Doing Actions, not by Asking and Talking..
Obviously something is wrong so where...Something we don't Know about..



If the boy is as helpful, etc., as the mom claims, then he can't do anything more in terms of service--he is doing actions. His only choice is to get the boys to like him. That said, I doubt he is as helpful as mom claims, at least when adults aren't looking. As BD said, boys aren't stupid. They know who works hard, etc. They know who has to be prodded to break camp, vs. those who are working hard withou being told.

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#45 SWScouter

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 05:26 PM

Some troops are just tough when it comes to the elections too. A couple weeks ago I went to a troop election with 23 names on the ballot. Of those 23, only 3 were elected. Those scouts have set a high bar to get into the OA. This obviously isn't a new thing otherwise there would have been more members in the OA and less on the ballot.
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#46 JC'sMom

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 06:57 AM

My son was elected to OA recently and attended Ordeal this past weekend. Another boy in his Troop was not elected and his mother was VERY upset about it. So she had one of the ASM sign an Ordeal registration form for her son. She took him to Ordeal on Friday with the signed form and registration money and the OA staff allowed him to stay and complete Ordeal. So I can tell you that I know being voted in by your peers is not the only way in...at least at this lodge. I would not recommend this route as it has caused a conflict in the Troop and the boys who were honestly voted in feel like they have been slighted. And I feel like it took something away from their experience. I have considered contacting OA staff for the lodge and discuss my concerns but at this point I can't decide. What do you all think?
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#47 perdidochas

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 08:07 AM

JC's Mom, Whats done is done. It's a bad situation, but all you will do is make it worse. What woudl you want done? Would you want the boy with the pushy mom to be stripped of his unearned sash? Do you think that will make things any better? The boys who were voted in did lose out.
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#48 JC'sMom

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 08:57 AM

It is a bad situation. And you are right, what's done is done. I haven't contacted the lodge yet because there is nothing that can be done at this point to make it right for anyone. Guess I am more just really disgusted that this "honor society" which has rules in place for elections did not follow their own rules. I don't see the "honor" in it anymore.
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#49 skeptic

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 09:02 AM

It is not your horse to whip. The council should step in and clarify how this was allowed in the first place, as should the troop committee. Someone needs to make it clear to the ASM and leadership in general that they have NO authority to override the normal channels. And those on the OA staff who allowed it need to be retrained too, as there should have been a list of scouts that DID get elected and were invited to do the Ordeal.
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#50 JC'sMom

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 09:23 AM

Right. It is not really my fight as my son's OA election and Ordeal was handled the correct way. I just hate that it overshadowed the experience for him and the other boys.
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#51 gsdad

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 01:31 PM

Park the helicopter at Woodbadge and leave your son's Scouting experiences in his own hands. The fact that you mentioned being on Woodbadge staff speaks volumes. If he needs to ask for votes he is not a good candidate for the OA. The OA is not just something to add to a resume.
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#52 qwazse

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 09:03 PM

@JCM, If I were SM and heard about such shenanigans I would be spitting nails. I would ask my COR to dismiss that ASM. (Chances are he would talk me off of that ledge.) I would call the lodge advisor ashamed and embarrassed by what happened. I would follow his and the chiefs lead about what should be done after that.
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#53 jpstodwftexas

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 02:25 AM

My son was elected to OA recently and attended Ordeal this past weekend. Another boy in his Troop was not elected and his mother was VERY upset about it. So she had one of the ASM sign an Ordeal registration form for her son. She took him to Ordeal on Friday with the signed form and registration money and the OA staff allowed him to stay and complete Ordeal. So I can tell you that I know being voted in by your peers is not the only way in...at least at this lodge.

I would not recommend this route as it has caused a conflict in the Troop and the boys who were honestly voted in feel like they have been slighted. And I feel like it took something away from their experience.

I have considered contacting OA staff for the lodge and discuss my concerns but at this point I can't decide. What do you all think?

Your Right...""at least at this Lodge"" is Correct..
Again Only Voted in By Your Peers is the Correct and Should be Only way in.
First the Lodge Should have received a Notice from all the troops in the Council on Whom they Elected
Second Those Elected should have been notified by being "Called Out" at a Call Out Ceremony..
Third Lodge Screwed up Royally..They should have had a List of the Candidates who were Elected and Called Out

Plus I have never heard of Any Lodge having a Registration Form for Ordeal.

What Lodge is this?
Your Right it does take away from Those who Followed the Rules and were elected into the Lodge instead of just registering and buying their way into the Lodge....If I was Still a Youth I would Bring it before the Lodge Leadership and ask for the Youth to be removed and Banned from Membership. Which Can and Should Happen....The Scout had to have known he was not elected..Does this Lodge Hold Call out Ceremonies?


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#54 JC'sMom

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 06:33 AM

Yes there was a Call Out Ceremony at Camporee a couple weeks ago. After that is when this mom realized that her son was not voted in. She was told that the documentation from the election had been turned in and her son was not voted in and therefore he could not attend Ordeal. I was there for this conversation when she was told he could not go. The form said "pre-registration" and to be returned with medical releases, identifying information, date attending Ordeal, etc. There was a place at the bottom for "Unit Leader's Signature". I have not seen the ASM that signed this form for her. He was not at the Troop meeting this week. And when I say it has caused a conflict in the Troop, I mean a HUGE conflict. I do not know what the SM has done or who he has talked with. I feel like the Lodge needs to understand what they have done... the trouble this has caused.
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#55 SM bob

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 08:26 AM

JC's mom - It's sad that this has happened. I would talk to the SM and the CC about my issues. Then I would walk away from it. Your son went through the ordeal and probably is better for it. The other scouts knows his helicopter mom got him in. I am guessing he is feeling pretty ashamed of this due to the reaction of his fellow scouts. The boys went through their ordeals they are both in. Going forward the SM will now have to clean house and deal with the parents side of the troop. I know you feel betrayed but try to keep the parent issues away from your son. The scouts in the troop need to deal this out on there own.
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#56 eagle90

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 08:57 AM

How can this happen? We had our election last week, and I, as Scoutmaster, had to sign the election form and certify the election. Then the form had to be signed by an additional adult OA member AND a scout OA member to make the form valid.
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#57 JC'sMom

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 09:40 AM

Clearly the ASM should not have gotten involved and signed the registration form for this boy and his mother should not have acted the way she did. But I feel like the Lodge is responsible for some of this mess as well. The SM was told on Friday that she was on the way to Ordeal with her son and he at that point said that the Lodge would turn her away. But that did not happen.
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#58 qwazse

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 10:16 AM

Okay, aside from being aggrieved adults, what can we scouters do? Let me give a gentle suggestion based on personal experience from outside of scouting. When I was in high school, my friends did me the biggest favor in the world by calling me out on something offensive that I did. The guys who really weren't my friends gave me "high fives" for being cool and not getting caught. In the grand scheme of things, the offense really wasn't that great, and there was not much that I could do to change things. But the fact that good people who I cared about told me in no uncertain terms what they thought of my actions helped me to be a better person in the long run. So, the very least you could do is encourage your son and his buddies to tell that other scout how they felt about him getting a 'free pass" on something that was really important to them. They can tell him he doesn't have to do anything to make it right. He probably can't. But that first point of the scout law? It's down at the bottom of the latrine at the moment.
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#59 JC'sMom

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 01:47 PM

qwazse, Good advice. Thanks. I just hope that this situation is not the standard or will become the standard with Lodge 560. If so, it is a sad day for the OA.
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#60 Oldscout448

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 05:26 PM

In a strange way I feel sorry for the scout who got in without being elected. He cheated (or his Mom shoved him into cheating ) and thus cheapened the Order to the point of meaninglessness. I guess all he can do now is refuse to wear the sash or flap if he wishes to retain an iota of honour or honesty This was a screw up on so many levels
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