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Yet another DE


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#41 Krampus

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Posted 29 December 2015 - 10:00 AM

Why don't you extend your Hand Krampus to yours.  I understand not all Councils are great and they need work and even guidance, but without them then where would we be? 

 

ROFL, why? I don't need him for anything. I have 80+ scouts and families to manage, a slew of volunteers, recruiting, advancement, training, SMCs, scout issues, etc. He's been in the role for several years. He doesn't attend any RTs. He doesn't email anyone. He doesn't call anyone. Using the logic of simply contacting him to say "Hi", I might as well contact anyone I don't know to say "Hi".

 

He gets paid to develop relationships with units. It is literally one of his paid duties. Not sure why I should help someone do their job when they obviously could not care less about me, my unit, my CO or anything related to our well-being. There has to be a line drawn at some point when trying to help others otherwise 1) they will never learn to do things for themselves, and 2) everyone has a limit to which they can help someone.


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#42 JasonG172

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Posted 29 December 2015 - 10:58 AM

Well then your DE's are unlike the DE's I deal with on a Weekly Basis. I don't only communicate with my specific DE but I am pretty close to a few others in the other Districts.  We all have a mutual goal. 


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#43 MattHiggins

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Posted 29 December 2015 - 03:57 PM

ROFL, why? I don't need him for anything . . .

. . . He gets paid to develop relationships with units. It is literally one of his paid duties. Not sure why I should help someone do their job when they obviously could not care less about me, my unit, my CO or anything related to our well-being. There has to be a line drawn at some point when trying to help others otherwise 1) they will never learn to do things for themselves, and 2) everyone has a limit to which they can help someone.

 

Do you have a relationship with anyone at your council? I imagine you must. I wasn't suggesting your role is to help the DE.Doesn't sound like he needs any help if he has had the job for years and doesn't have interact with any units--not even send an email. If I was you, I'd be more interested in seeing how he can help your unit. Maybe your unit is an island and you don't need your council for anything.

 

Still surprised a DE is never required to got to Roundtable or even contact a unit.


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#44 TAHAWK

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 12:51 PM

This thread once again reminds me of what I have to be thankful for:

 

 

A council that is well managed and well funded.

 

District Executives that have consistently worked hard and with reasonable effectiveness to advance the goals and purposes of Scouting.

 

In the past eleven years,  we've had one DE promoted to a council fund raising position,  and later to a national BSA position.

 

We've also had a DE who has been promoted to Field Director in another council.

 

 

Both of those men were hard working and effective staffers.

 

Our current DE continues that pattern of being a hard working and effective staff member.

 

My heart goes out to those who aren't as lucky as those in the Chief Seattle Council.

 

You situation suggests a real leader filling the Council Executive position.  I know a few of those are around, but mostly not.

 

We have a nice man at the top who arrived to hold his terminal position and has been pretty much retired-in-place since.   

 

Our new super district started out with five employees, none of whom was remotely professional and all of whom were fired or quit in seven months.  The five positions have not all been filled in the four years since. Average tenure is just under six months.

 

Somewhere in there we had one actual professional.  He was impressive.  However,  he got discouraged a quit after eight months.  Competent people tend to remove themselves from incompetent organizations.


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#45 Krampus

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 03:46 PM

Do you have a relationship with anyone at your council? I imagine you must. I wasn't suggesting your role is to help the DE.Doesn't sound like he needs any help if he has had the job for years and doesn't have interact with any units--not even send an email. If I was you, I'd be more interested in seeing how he can help your unit. Maybe your unit is an island and you don't need your council for anything.

 

Still surprised a DE is never required to got to Roundtable or even contact a unit.

 

I think we've discussed this (use of a DE and/or district) before. I have no clue what a DE could do for me. All I have ever seen them do is hassle me for recharter paperwork (when it has already been submitted), request my JTE form (also already submitted), hound me about FOS, request attendance to RTs that provide no help or assistance, etc. Just no clue what he would do for me.


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#46 JasonG172

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 04:07 PM

I hate that TAHAWK, some I guess are fortunate to have larger councils yet small enough to maintain that sense of Brotherhood.  I value my relationship with my execs and I would do anything I can to help them.

 

DE's (my council specifically) are run ragged mainly because the size of each District.  It is a job that I would GLADLY turn down if ever offered.


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#47 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 03:27 PM

As a former pro and long time volunteer, I've seen good DEs, and I have seen bad ones. I've seen some coast, and I seen some burn out with exhaustion. I've seen some that had "leverage" over the upper management and didn't have to lift a finger to succeed, and some  were so hounded by the upper management, that they worked so much that their marriage, and even health failed them. And of course I've seen a bunch leave in frustration and disillusionment.


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#48 desertrat77

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 12:18 PM


 Competent people tend to remove themselves from incompetent organizations.

 

So true, Tahawk.   I recall a conversation with a DE (who is long gone and has moved on to a better job) who told me that the council required DEs to attend a regular Friday meeting at council hq that was always scheduled to fill the entire business day.   Not counting the 2 hour drive each way to the council hq.

 

Sure paints a bleak picture of what a DE's life is like.   Difficult to get anything done when you are held captive in a meeting for that long.   Skype, video teleconference, etc., all disapproved.   Must be at council hq in person.   To me, the council shows a lack of trust or confidence in the DEs.


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#49 TAHAWK

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 05:14 PM

BSA handles technology about as well as communications generally.  In the last couple of years we got the rule that Council cannot "share" volunteer contact data with volunteer committees due to a new "privacy" rule.   So we have to work separately to create unofficial contact lists to staff and promote events.   We keep trying but: Sigh!


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#50 Daped01

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 03:01 PM

We just had a new DE Start last week.  Young guy, fresh out of college.  Earned Eagle Scout in 08.  

 

 

 

Anyone have any thoughts on if having an Eagle Scout DE makes any difference over a DE who either did not earn eagle, or was not involved with scouting as a youth?


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#51 Stosh

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 03:06 PM

II think this dovetails into the discussion we just had with UC that are Eagles and coming on board.  Being a scout and running a scout program don't seem to translate all that well.


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#52 walk in the woods

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 03:44 PM

Depends.  If being an Eagle puts a fire in his belly for the job then yes, it could be an advantage for him to survive the job.  The gentleman who was my DE when I first got back into scouting is an Eagle and did a great job.  Since then I've been through two young ladies that lasted less than a year each because they were unwilling to give up their time after they learned what the job really entailed, one woman who came from the non-profit sector that was really good and one woman that was straight out of college and ok, but absolutely no outdoor experience.  It's like a box of chocolates........


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#53 qwazse

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 03:47 PM

...

Anyone have any thoughts on if having an Eagle Scout DE makes any difference over a DE who either did not earn eagle, or was not involved with scouting as a youth?

I don't think it makes much of a difference. Those few years after high school will tell more of the story.

 

There is a tremendous amount of busy work to being DE. So, I would think an clerk in the military would excel over most college grads. Obviously a college grad who was in ROTC or who worked in sales/marketing would have advantages.

 

Sometimes the DE who was never a scout thinks highly of the program for never having been one. In that sense, sincerity trumps history. I know one lady who does an outstanding job.

 

How a new DE performs (by the numbers) out of the gate is really determined by the mentoring of his/her colleagues, and the heavy lifting already being done by the commissioners. How he/she helps your unit with your particular problems depends on how much he/she's paid attention during training vs. the level of difficulty your unit is in.


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#54 gumbymaster

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Posted 16 January 2016 - 04:24 PM

I think that, at least initially, the former Scout (especially Eagles) DEs tend to put up with the job longer - they really believe in what they are doing, and giving back to the program.

 

From my anecdotal experience,  DEs seem to come in a couple of flavors ...

1. The young, just out of college type. (If a former scout, they usually last a year or more, if not they do not seem to last that long).

2. The older, nearly retired, former Scouter (these either last a long time - believe in the cause, or are beyond caring about SE pressure; or are gone within 3 months - disillusioned with the politics and finances)

3. The "between jobs" younger adult.  They usually do not last past marriage/kids.


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#55 SSScout

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Posted 16 January 2016 - 09:38 PM

Gumby master, I agree with your observation.
I know (knew) of a retired contractor, who took on the role of DE, almost purely because he needed something to keep busy and he loved Scouting. Certainly didn't need the money. Two kids in/thru Scouting. Years later, he became a "District Director", and was well respected among us vols, but came on hard times with BSA (don't know the whole story) and was forced to resign. His kids are still in Scouts and progress.
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#56 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 17 January 2016 - 12:43 PM

So true, Tahawk.   I recall a conversation with a DE (who is long gone and has moved on to a better job) who told me that the council required DEs to attend a regular Friday meeting at council hq that was always scheduled to fill the entire business day.   Not counting the 2 hour drive each way to the council hq.

 

Sure paints a bleak picture of what a DE's life is like.   Difficult to get anything done when you are held captive in a meeting for that long.   Skype, video teleconference, etc., all disapproved.   Must be at council hq in person.   To me, the council shows a lack of trust or confidence in the DEs.

 

That former DE wasn't in East Carolina Council by any chance? When I was a DE, I was "fortunate" in that if i didn't get stuck behind a tractor, It would tale me only an hours one way to get to my all day meeting. I had friends who would take over hours,  if they got stuck behind a tractor .


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#57 blw2

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Posted 18 January 2016 - 09:20 AM

We just had a new DE Start last week.  Young guy, fresh out of college.  Earned Eagle Scout in 08.  

 

 

 

Anyone have any thoughts on if having an Eagle Scout DE makes any difference over a DE who either did not earn eagle, or was not involved with scouting as a youth?

My observations after experiencing a bunch of new DE's roll through

The guy that was Eagle had more passion for scouting than the several entry level straight out of college girls that followed him, which made him seem at least to care about his job a bit more

He also had a better understanding of Boy scouts in general, which translated I think to a slightly better impression on others (maybe inspired slightly more confidence...)

 

BUT

 

as others have suggested, I don't think it made a hill of beans worth of difference to the job itself.

Might arguably even been a hinderance as he got pulled doing stuff he knew in no direct way helped the boys (only my assumption, not backed by anything said or observed)


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#58 Daped01

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Posted 20 January 2016 - 11:08 AM

Thanks for the replies guys!  


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#59 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 08:00 AM

Usually guys with experience, and if they are NCS certified even more so, get pulled in multiple directions that do affect their performance in their districts.   I had 2 years of summer camp experience, and was an NCS certified C.O.P.E. director. I also had heavy program experience via being involved with the OA as a lodge officer and OA chapter adviser.  Needless to say, I spent a lot of time working program events and spent the entire summer at camp.

 

While I enjoyed the work, especially working with volunteers to create a good program, these duties were not part of my evaluation. And when others had their roundups planned, new unit prospects lined up, and district nominating committee up and running, I was way behind. One thing that was on my eval, Cub Scout day camp, I was not able to support fully since I was at camp. Long story short, I was moved from one position where I could leave occasionally, to one where I had to remain at camp while in operation. So I could not support day camp. It was only after summer that I discovered the issues that the day camp had ( 7 Cubs in attendance ?!?!?!?!?!)


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#60 SSScout

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Posted 01 September 2016 - 08:01 PM

The usual story:

Fresh out of out of state college,  Loves Scouting,  sees a chance to get paid to advance the Scout Movement.  Signs on with our District, (previous DE is promoted to "Senior DE" at a struggling neighboring District after just over one  year with us), we like him, does a good job, even did some FoS presentations.  And now, after 3 months(!) is resigning, but is choosing to be our volunteer Pop Corn Kernel because he "likes the way we operate".  I understand he already has a good job lined up already (two weeks notice). 

Ho hum....


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