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Anyone else seen the on-line Anti OA items Re: similarity to Masonic Order?


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#41 BklynEagle

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 10:18 AM

Obviously this Salza fellow is a whackjob, like those types that get bent out of shape over the jolly old elf from the North Pole, on account of "Santa" being an anagram of "Satan". (Cue the forboding music and the cameo of Vincent Price) As a Catholic, and a rather conservative on at that, I have no problem with the OA, and neither does my priest. Like many others who have posted here, I can think of more than a few OA-affiliated members of the local Catholic Committee on Scouting. It seems that Salza feels that (A) the lack of obvious recognition for the Christian God and (B) the similarities between the OA and Freemasonry are enough to make the OA a no-go. Salza probably dislikes George Washington for similar reasons. I think that it is highly unfortunate that Mr. Salza has elected to make mountains out of mole-hills, and state without equivocation that he has done no favors for his Church. As a side note, in response to BadenP's comment on the rocky relationship between the BSA and the RC Church, I would say that the larger issue was the fortress mentality taken up by American Catholics as a result of persistant and violent persecution. My ancestors may have (unfortunately and inaccurately) thought that all Prots were jerks, but that was because "No Irish Need Apply" signs multiplied faster than rabbits, and some Protestants enjoyed teaching their kids how to build a fire while they were next to the wooden walls of the local Catholic church. Oh, and shortridge, another comment like yours of 10/15, and I'll have to recommend you for THE COMFY CHAIR! ( ;) )
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#42 Mr. Boyce

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Posted 02 January 2010 - 05:13 PM

I am a Catholic OA member; the article is preposterous. The Masons, having been in existence for centuries, pretty much were first to define through their practices many of the elements going into ANY kind of organization initiation. They helped to establish the basic concept. But it's a leap of logic to then call the OA Masonic. Mr. Salza needs to cut back on his caffeine intake.
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#43 Twocubdad

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Posted 02 January 2010 - 10:11 PM

We recently had a Scout transfer from a neighboring troop chartered to a rather conservative Protestant church. One of the things he didn't like about the other troop (or perhaps more accurately, that his father didn't like about the other troop) was that they don't participate in OA as they thought it to be un-Christian. Who knew?
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#44 Eagle92

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Posted 02 January 2010 - 11:17 PM

2Cub, Don't feel bad. We had 1 chapter in my lodge refuse to have any of their members go through the Brotherhood Ceremony as my chapter's reagalia was based upon the 1920/30s regalia of black robes and Native American headdresses. thought we were satanic with the robes. They use robes at OATC, and some of our folks came back from OATC and wanted to use robes.
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#45 SSScout

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Posted 03 January 2010 - 06:56 PM

Well, I haven't saw fit to participate in this thread yet, but I do have a perspective. My father was 32rd degree in the Scottish Rite, and Boumi Temple member,and I joined the Demolay (jr. Mason club) for two years at my dads invitation. I have to say that all clubs that use "secret" stuff to lend an air of importance to it's purpose can be held similar to Masonic ritual. What's more important is the promises made and kept. The Masonic organizations are religious in tone and activity and can become a religion, superceding the originaL faith of the adherent, if they should follow it to it's logical end. Many faiths are not sympathetic to or comfortable with Freemasonry and rightfully so in my opinion. But that said, the Masons do good public work, secret ritual and regalia not withstanding. OA is certainly not a religion, but it's native American symbolism based ritual is meant to remind the member of the importance of faith (whichever), loyalty (brotherhood) and service to others. I chose not to be supportive of a secret organization that my loved ones would not be permitted to participate in or observe. I know I became uncomfortable with some of the Demolay ritual and symbolism, even at my young and tender age, and so did not continue. That much I remember, details of my discomfort are not so clear. On my father's death, our favorite Methodist church allowed a Masonic ceremony during his memorial service. His Lions club spoke, I spoke, and the Masons spoke, top hats, aprons, capes and all. They invited me to consider joining my father's lodge, but I had to say no, due to the secrecy and religious overtones I knew of. I said I thought that being a Quaker AND being a Mason would not be possible. I remember they insisted that the two could be reconciled, but I demurred. I see no such conflict with BSA and the OA (so far!). YiS
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#46 83_Eagle_T148

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Posted 12 February 2010 - 08:59 PM

Salza is a zealot, looking for any perceived impurity, with a desire to cleanse the world of anything that makes him feel threatened. The first thing to know about this type is that he is insecure in his own faith, something I do not see in the posts of my many devout brothers. The second thing to know is that Salza is trying to gain trust and notoriety, using his Geraldo like inquisition to rise from obscurity. Guys like Salza are dangerous, and have little concern for the truth, only the drama they can create, and the people they can manipulate. Salza is cast in the mold of those who have murdered millions of innocents throughout history, a potential Jim Jones. He's a crack pot, but a dangerous one. This type can do great harm, as some will believe what he says, regardless of the facts.
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#47 BulldogBlitz

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Posted 18 February 2010 - 02:44 PM

Fellow brethren, speak no more of our order lest you reap the wrath of the almighty tuna. /sarcasm off i see where he's coming from on all of this. i don't believe that the oa is put for to indoctrinate any scout into the freemasonry or any other brick-laying fraternity. on a side note, i bet this guy was a hoot back in the 70s and 80s listening to records backwards trying to find out which ones had "hidden" messages.
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#48 campcrafter

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 02:43 PM

It's a Catholic Thang! The first few lines of his "article" should give a clue. It is a special blessing for me to be a Catholic apologist and to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Whenever I am confronted with errors against the Faith, I do my best to expose these errors for the salvation of souls according to the gifts that God has given me. It was by Gods providence that I discovered a very dangerous movement that is attacking the Faith and the Church. He is a self important religious fanatic who is concerned more about rules and dogma of the latin church of the past than he is about his fellowman - contrary to what he will tell you. I've met his type and have a few in the parish I belong to. And if you look at the site the article is on: Catholic Apologetics Intl, you see they are part of the group who think they know better than Rome itself. Not to worry about the attack on OA, they also have the righteousness attack the USCCB - US Conference of Catholic Bishops, basically the governing body of the church in the US. My eldest brother called be the other day asking if I had a certain lodge flap since he is volunteering again in the lodge of the council he now lives in. Oh and he is a permanent deacon employeed by the church. Salza and his ilk would call him a heretic.
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#49 BklynEagle

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 03:16 PM

campcrafter, I don't disagree with the general tone of your comment, but I would ask you to change one thing: It is not a "Catholic Thang", as you have so colorfully put it; it's a whackjob thing.
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#50 campcrafter

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 04:07 PM

It is not a "Catholic Thang", as you have so colorfully put it; it's a whackjob thing. Agreed Didn't mean to offend only that in the Catholic Church (to which I belong) as far as I know are there these so-called true believers who think Vatican II was heresy and wouldn't mind bringing back the Inquisition. I don't know that other denominations have these type nuts in them. In those they just break off to start their own denomination?. Hopefully I haven't dug myself in deeper here! (It won't let me edit my previous post) YIS cc
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#51 BklynEagle

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 04:21 PM

Oh, I don't know, I thought the Inquisition was pretty neat. The soft cushions, the comfy chair, witty dialogue... "Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise...."
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#52 BadenP

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 07:19 PM

I don't know campcrafter but with the direction of this new pope you would be considered the "whackjob" , he hates Vatican II and is bringing back the latin mass as the norm.
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#53 BklynEagle

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 08:39 AM

Oh good Lord, he's at it again.... And after I spent the time and effort to agree with you and rush to defend your good name.... Several months ago, BadenP, you predicted in another thread that the Roman Catholic Church was going to drop the Vatican II reforms and revert back to the old Tridentine Rite. Well, I'm still waiting. Actually, I mentioned your bold prediction to a priest friend of mine, who about laughed his keister off. This may come as a news flash, but they DON'T TEACH LATIN IN THE SEMINARY ANY MORE. (Caps for effect) You know what I like most about you, BadenP? It's the religious tolerance and warmth of character that you bring. Kinda like an early Cromwell. (Snark off)
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#54 BadenP

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 12:37 PM

Bklyn You know as well as I do that the changes take a long while to go into effect, look at Vatican II changes took over 20 years to go into full effect for pete sake. Benedict has a four tier plan which he has already started returning the latin mass to its former primary position is now a mandate, not an option, as far as the Latin I covered that in the other thread, but he is still getting a lot of opposition from some prominent cardinals and bishops. In his final phase the tabernacle will return to the altar and the altar will be moved back and once again the priest will have his back to the congregation. All of this will take years to fully be in effect, but the first steps are happening now in many area parishes where there is at least one latin mass every Sunday. Rest assured BKlyn this is going to unveil itself in our lifetime even while the pews on Sunday are becoming more and more empty. Go to the Vatican website and read it for yourself or talk to your priest.
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#55 DYB-Mike

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 04:11 PM

BadenP, I checked out the Vatican website as you suggested (read some of Sacramentum Caritatis concerning tabernacle placement), looked up articles on the net, and I really dont see any real evidence of this four tier plan or which you speak. I really dont think Pope Benedict will be around for 20 years to put this plan into effect. From what I can see its simply that the rules allowing for a Latin Mass have been relaxed so now a Bishops approval is no longer required. Personally, I dont consider this a bad thing. I wouldnt mind hearing a Latin Mass now and then. There definitely is something mystical about it. Ive told my kids how the old Mass used to be celebrated when I was their age. I still have fragments of the old Latin responses rattling around my head. YIS Mike
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#56 campcrafter

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 11:04 AM

I am sure that a lot of folks think I'm a whackjob! :) I do see a bit of conservative trend in some folks but they aren't the majority of those in the pews. I think Ratzinger was elected as honor of his servie to JP-II and the church and that due to his age would be a transitional pope after the long term of his predecessor. (But of course that's what they thought about John XXIII and look what he did!) Really only time will tell. YIS campcrafter
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#57 BadenP

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 11:08 AM

Mike Time to take your CAtholic blinders off dude, Pope John died thre months into Vatican II yet those changes still went through because many clerics realized,to use Pope Johns own words, "the church had become stagnant and elitist and it was time to open the windows and let some fresh air in." Pope Benedict and his personally selected cardinals want to return to that elitist prevatican II church, first by eliminating all ecumenical talks with other Christian denominations and declaring that "that the sacraments of the Catholic Church and the ordination of Catholic priests are the only truly valid sacraments in the eyes of God, and that all other sacraments and ordinations are invalid and illegitimiate.The Roman Catholic Church has the ONLY true path to eternal life" Any way you slice it this guy is truly an anachronistic, out of touch with reality, as well as being an elitist and subversive leader. That is why you see Catholics leaving the church in droves and why the church felt that the currently running "Catholics Come Home" media blitz was so necessary. In those ads they state their are over 1 billion Catholics world wide, what they don't tell you is that the church includes the over 600 million former and nonpracticing catholics in that number. A good friend of mine in advertising worked on this campaign and was shocked that church leaders insisted on using the 1 Billion number. Goes to show you that even high ranking church officials will tell any lie to the people to convince them, of course they have been doing that for centuries.(This message has been edited by BadenP)
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#58 campcrafter

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 11:09 AM

"Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise...." HA - I had forgotten about that skit! cc
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#59 The Blancmange

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 11:21 AM

Stop it, now, or we'll have to tie you to the rack.
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#60 prof

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 03:43 PM

Or we'll say "NEE"
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