When to advance?

[sctmom 11]

These diagnosis do mean A LOT!

 

ADD and ADHD have been around for years under different names. I don't have the book handy so I can't remember all the names used over the decades. Remember those kids known as "hyperactive" back in the 60's and 70's? My cousin was one. It was more of a label not a diagnosis. By the way he is now a 36 year old successful business owner and dad to 2 great kids.

 

As OGE says, we all remember those kids in school who wouldn't sit still or who seemed in a daze. The ones being told "you are not living up to your potential". The teenager who could rebuild a car engine but couldn't read past a 3rd grade level. He was most likely ADD. Or maybe dyslexic.

 

Yes, ADD is sometimes overdiagnosed. So are other problems -- I had one doctor who insisted my son was bipolar (maniac despressive). That was her speciality. It was also the latest in her mind since 20/20 had just done a show about it. Many doctors and therapists have their "specilaty" and most of the people who walk through there door get the same diagnosis. Most parents I know made sure they had multiple opinions about their child's diagnosis before medicating or labeling.

 

For my son, numerous people filled out profiles on him and his behavior including myself, his dad, and 2 teachers. We took him to a M.D., therapist and pscyharist. That was after the school counselor, asst. principal and county school psychologist had talked with him and observed him. Every form answered independently. Everyone had the same basic descriptions of his behavior.

 

 

 

[eisely 13]

ADD is certainly over diagnosed. The first time I heard of this was from a school psychologist about fifteen years ago. My immediate reaction was that it was just another excuse that the educational establishment had dreamed up to cover its own failures. But it is very real.

 

I will go you one further. Ever hear of something called "non verbal learning disorder?" NLD has not quite gotten the recognition that ADD has gotten, and it shares some characteristics with ADD. This disorder was first given a name about ten years ago. I have yet to meet a shrink who can give me a sensible definition of NLD, but it sounds like it applies to many of the individual boys described in this thread.

 

Scouting does provide for many of these kids the only activity that is willing to take them on. It can be a great burden, but that doesn't mean that we should give up. Hang in there.

[Rooster7 11]

This is a great topic. I find myself agreeing in total with Chippewa29's last post. I DO believe that ADD exists. I don't question the fact that some people have tremendous powers to concentrate and others have to struggle with a wandering mind.

 

I am 42. I stand convinced that I have ADD. Perhaps one day, like Chippewa29's friend, I will look into it more. Still, I have managed to cope. I don't use it as an excuse. My mind wanders way more often than I like, but some of it is a matter of choice.

 

I've seen parents use ADD and other disorders as an excuse for bad behavior. Could someone explain to me how any of these disorders compels a boy to be rude (i.e., tell someone to "shut up", or take a swing at someone)? I've heard the compulsiveness argument, but I don't buy it. At some point in time, a person has to say to himself, "hey, I can't do that. It's not acceptable". I know it's a problem. I feel for people that have to struggle with the disorder. Nevertheless, I feel if we raise our kids properly, they will overcome. I'm not willing to buy into the ADD defense for murder (not that anyone here has suggested that). In short, when Chippewa29 said -

 

I think the big question is this: at what point in their lives is it appropriate for the Scouts to say "I am responsible for who I am"?

 

I am compelled to say - AMEN. This is no doubt a very sensitive issue. For some, ADD may be a greater problem than I could possibly imagine. To those folks, I apologize. I don't want to imply that everyone is in the same boat. However, from my observations of boys in my Troop and elsewhere, parental indifference and/or parental acquiescence is as much of a problem as ADD. Even ADD kids need discipline. Some of them get it and others are sometimes given way too much room to breathe.

 

[sctmom 11]

Rooster,

Well said!

 

My son is 10 years old, as he becoming more aware of differences in people, including his on ADHD situation, I am trying to stress to him this is NOT an excuse for bad behavior or not doing schoolwork. It is part of who he is and he must learn to live with it. He must try hard to figure out what works for him. Some things may take him longer to do than another kid. Right now we are dealing with the fact he has a mental block about writing any schoolwork. A one page paper assignment can drive him to tears. Yet, he must do it.

 

The same with he must learn to control his anger or it will control him. Often talking calmly to him after he has cooled down seems to help. He has improved so much in the last few years about anger and violence that it is unbelievable. He's now old enough to begin learning things like 'breath deep and count to 10 when angry'. I'm also going to introduce him to mediatation to give him yet another "tool" to cope.

 

Also, Scouting helps. As he goes to Boy Scouting in a few months, I hope that working more with the older boys and the other scoutmasters will help him mature.

 

 

[Chippewa29 13]

This topic has gone a little bit off tangent, but it is still very important and very relevant to the Scouting movement today. My challenge Scout should finish up his second class by next week (he has one "study" requirement left to do). Right now, I plan to sit down with him and his dad (his mom is very active with a younger brother in Cubs and not around much) and have a sheet written with specific things I expect of him in regards to his growth as a person and a leader. I'll include things such as making sure he remembers his book, neckerchief, etc. after troop meetings (no one is perfect, but every week is ridiculous), doing what the youth leaders tell him (if he doesn't like something, he at best questions "why?", knowing that he is being a pest), not wandering off during troop meetings, etc. He also needs to realize that he needs to be more of a team player and not so self-centered. A couple of weeks back, the Scouts were finishing off their knots and lashings for their Tenderfoot and First Class. They obviously started with the Tenderfoot knots (our two older Scouts were teaching and testing), with the Scouts who already had Tenderfoot helping the ones who didn't. Our challenge Scout, within 30 seconds of the activity starting, was off playing with the toys in the corner. When I asked him why he wasn't with the group, he said because he already had that signed off in his book. He doesn't see why he has to practice things (he doesn't try to remember or practice things he isn't naturally inclined to once he has them signed off) or take part in a troop activity in which he already has completed the requirements. When I've mentioned to him about learning the skills well enough so he can teach them to the other Scouts, he asks "Why would I want to do that?" Obviously, that is not a very Scout-like attitude. How can I impress upon him the importance of working as a team and how it is to the benefit of everyone for him to "help other people at all times"? Our older Scouts (both on the brink of getting their Eagles) are very good with helping the younger Scouts, so he has an example to follow there.

[Chippewa29 13]

I have a positive update on challenge Scout. He had his Scoutmaster conference tonight and did very well. He had some very good perspectives that have shown some growth on his part. He then had his board of review (we have a Court of Honor next week, so we had three SM conferences and three boards of review tonight) and the people who conducted it said he did very well and also commented that he seems to be growing up some. Also, during the rest of the meeting, he didn't wander off and did what he was told without whining or ignoring us. It may have had to do with my pointing out to him during his SM conference that in order for him to advance in the future and be a leader, he was going to need to improve in those areas (I had written it down and gave it to him so he could review it with his parents). It was probably the best meeting/activity he has had since he joined the troop almost two years ago. He seemed like one of the other kids. I'm hoping this meeting will start a new trend, as the past two weeks, he was very disruptive and whiny throughout the meetings. We are hoping that he shows some responsibility and continues to grow because we think that he could possibly be a good den chief for his mom's (and brother's) Webelos den.

[FScouter 24]

Next week remember to remind him what a great job he did on his board of review. Positive reinforcement sometimes works wonders.

[andrews 10]

And don't get discouraged if he temporarily falls back into old behavior. It sounds like a corner has been turned and its great that you are helping him make it!

 

Brad

[scoutmom 10]

Positive reinforcement is ver important! I agree with Fscouter. Remind him of the good job he did and also remind him of how well he did in the Troop meeting. Andrews is right also, don't get discouraged if he baclslides a little. Be firm with him when things go wrong, but back it up with a reminder of his successes.

 

Putting your suggestions in writing was a great idea. I'm sure it will help your Scout and his parents.

 

Good Job! Keep up the good work!

[Mike Long 10]

Glad to hear it Chippewa29.

Very glad to hear it.

 

[NHScouter 10]

My first comment to Chippewa29 is that you are truly to be congratulated for seeking advice here rather than let this challenging scout get left by the wayside. This one boy probably needs scouting more than most.

 

My oldest son is currently crossing over into Boy Scouts. He has be diagnosed as ADHD, and has at times been a challenge to his mother and myself, but is extremely bright, none the less. I have also been a Cub Scout Den Leader for my oldest son and, as challenging as he can sometimes be, I also have several scouts in my den that have much more pronounced ADHD symptoms (six of my eight boys are ADHD). A seventh scout in my den is mildly Autistic. He makes the other scouts seem mild by comparison. Our Cubmaster, who has a den with his son - the same age as mine, likes to take the 'good' kids for himself. I don't mind, because I have seen how much these kids need scouting, and their parents, God bless them, need the break too. Yes, there have been den meetings which are chaos, but I'm a patient person.

 

I'd like to forward a comment that the parents of my most challenging scout sent to me:

 

"We just thought you might like to know that at Tim's school we had his annual parent/teacher assessment meeting and everyone commented on how Scouting has been such a positive part of Tim's life. He is so proud to come in and tell about the projects he has done and the places he has been. Thank you!"

 

The scouts and the parents may not say thank you often enough, but trust me, it is the most difficult boys that get the most out of the scouting program and the parents, scouts, and teachers can really tell that your efforts are not in vain.