Being Trained, requirement confusion

[Jay K 15]

IOLS can be substuted for the pack level outdoor training. This comes from a perusaul of the "new" Tour Plan form. Give National a call, I have found them always eager to help.

[ScoutNut 147]

>>"IOLS can be substuted for the pack level outdoor training. This comes from a perusaul of the "new" Tour Plan form."

[Eagle92 110]

Jay,

 

No, IOLS does not, repeat NOT, take the place of BALOO. Trust me I have taught IOLS, and I had to go through BALOO so I could take the pack camping.

 

As stated previously, at one time National was thinking about combining WeLOT and IOLS into one course, but has stepped back from that at this time. However I have heard a lot of district's will combine the two, or only offer IOLS, allowing the WDLs to go through it and get credit for both.

 

Cannot wait for next year when oldest is a Webelos and the den can camp on their own.

[Jay K 15]

Hey there, Eagle92!

I guess my credibility goes right out the window!

:~)

I've only done one tour plan so far. I've done dozens of the old tour permit applications. I crossed off Baloo and wrote in "OLS"

I've served as an OLS instructor, too. I can't bring myself to use the "I"

I've taken Webelos camping, and sucessfully floated my OLS in place of Baloo/Owls in our Council. I'm going to contact my people at National and reccomend standardizing the permissabily of substituting OLS. They did tell me that First Responder may be substituted for Wilderness First Aid, and I beleive that the same principal applies.

My Kids are out of Cubs, and it's a relief.

[kari_cardi 10]

Our district trainer recommended IOLS instead of WELOT for my Webelos leaders, and also said that it can count as BALOO training for pack camping.

[dg98adams 18]

This discussion hits right home this week. I am going OT... sorry.

 

I chaired the Outdoor Webelos Leader Skills (OWLS) course this weekend.

 

We only combined several portions of the Outdoor Leader Skills course (to make optimum use of the camp facilities - campfire, cooking, Wood Tools, ropes, tents/gear demos), but did not for the specific portions related to the Webelos Outdoor Activity Badges, and Webelos specific portions like Outdoor Program, Den camping, Den Campfire planning and Webelos-to-Scout transition. IMO that's the real meat of the OWLS course... getting familiar with the activity badges and offering ideas on how to cover them.

 

Back in the day when I was a Webelos Leader our council did not offer what call OWLS (acronym for Webelos Outdoor Leader Skills), so I got credit for the OLS course. I worked with several experienced Scout leaders for help on the Activity badges, and the course the Council now offers would have made a HUGE impact.

 

Sasha, I think your District Trainer is doing a disservice to the Webelos Leaders and I believe he is incorrect in his thinking.

 

Back to your regular programming.....

(This message has been edited by dg98adams)

[Basementdweller 608]

"I'm going to contact my people at National "

 

 

So who are you exactly again???????

[Eagle92 110]

Well all I can say is that I asked about BALOO and if I had to take it since I had SMF back in the day, and taught IOLS. Council said yes.

 

I hate to say this, but I think that each council, heck each person you talk to, will say something different.

[dg98adams 18]

Basement.....Surprisingly Jays Profile is filled out.

 

When did that get turned back on?

 

 

[ScoutNut 147]

Well perhaps you might ask your "people at National" why every every BSA publication states -

 

"At least one adult on a pack overnighter must have completed Basic Adult Leader Outdoor Orientation (BALOO, No. 34162) to properly understand the importance of program intent, Youth Protection guidelines, health and safety, site selection, age-appropriate activities, and sufficient adult participation."

 

With no mention anywhere of IOLS being allowed to substitute for BALOO.

 

You might also ask your "people at National" why they bother having national rules if they are not requiring local councils to follow them. Perhaps that might be one of the reasons that mandatory training is still such a mess.

[Eagle92 110]

Scoutnut,

 

One reason training records are a mess is that they were not considered needed until recently. Let's face it ythe limited number of folks at a council with SCOUTNET access have a choice: have 280 new members put into the system which the council uses to meets it various goals, or input 20 leaders who just got trained, but the stats don't go anywhere.

 

As a digression, I am willing to bet that is why CS records have been inadequate as well until recently: put in 100 Cub records that just get in the system and stay, or enter the 20 BS records which will be reviewed and sent to national with the Eagle application.

 

Luckily JTE is fixing that.

 

Also another reason I bet that council's allow substitutions is that they do not have enough training cadre to do all the trainings. Which is probably why the trainings are going to a one size fits all approach.

[Basementdweller 608]

Well from Jay's profile he is most definately qualified to offer a concrete answer to the question......I mean being an active adult in scouting since 2000 more than makes him qualified.

 

 

At least that Richard B character has some possible credibility as someone who is involved at the national level.

[Jay K 15]

I heard from National:

No substituting IOLS for BALOO. (or BALOO for IOLS.)They do like their training programs!

So, I have been operating in error for 7 years, and our Council is propagating that error. I repeated that error on this web site. Horrors!

 

I APOLOGIZE.

 

I've got work to do. I appealed to National to change this, and I guess I've got to take BALOO. I suggeted they (Hational) asterix a note on a revised Tour Plan form. Stay tuned!

[Jay K 15]

Basement Dweller:

Peace and blessings to you, brother.

I'm a guy that spent some time trying to find out about the BSA Lifeguard Counselor certification. I got some confusing information, so I called National. They were very helpful, and they encoraged me to call them when I get stumped at the lower levels, like regional or Council. Just not every time I break a toenail!

In the meantime, my Council said, "bypass Lifeguard Couselor. Go to Camp School and take Aquatics Director." So, I did. All I had to do was pay for it myself. When I was there, I made contacts all over the country, and with some regional people. When the cert was about to expire, I went to Camp School again, and made more contacts. I will state for your benefit: Camp School is more bang-for-the-buck than Wood Badge. Now I get e-mails about Aqautics Director openings. I reply to them and find out about those camps. HAve you heard about Pupkea in Hawaii?

So, when I get stumped, I call and e-mail around. Oh, and there's a Regional guy that lives in our town. I talk to him, too.

The OLS thing was from hanging around with our Council OLS staff, and becoming an OLS trainer myself. The OLS-for Baloo/OWLS note was on our Council website, and frankly we have told people that at OLS training. One thing I like about the debates (And I don't use the word debate perjoretevly) is it sharpens and clarifies my Scout knowledge. Now, I won't tell anybody to try to substitute OLS for Baloo.

Cool?

 

[Jay K 15]

Scoutnut:

Yes, I ask them. Expecting a cogent answer by 2052, when I turn 100. At least this one can be fixed by updating the Tour Plan form.