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#181 Lurking...

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 09:09 PM

I looked for the quote in the 1974 edition. couldn't find it.  Got a page #?


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#182 TAHAWK

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 09:27 PM

I gave you the link.  The quote is from the Robert K. Greenleaf Center for Servant Leadership website.  Home:  https://www.greenleaf.org/Isuppose they could be putting up fake quotes, but it seems unlikely.

 

"[P]ersuasion by any other means than the traditional authoritarian model is the better course of action to follow.”  Note "any."  


Edited by TAHAWK, 11 April 2017 - 09:31 PM.

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#183 Lurking...

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 09:59 PM

The context of the quote was throwing me off.  the quoted comments in "The Servant as Leader" is referenced under the Power and Authority section and referenced the practical application of the servant-leadership in the problem solving context.

 

I was referencing from Greenleaf's earlier theoretically premised book "Servant Leadership, A Journey into the Nature of Legitimate Power and Greatness" published in 1977, which was the basis for the servant leadership movement in our society.


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#184 fred johnson

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 08:35 AM

Too long of a thread to fully read ... Reminds me of our troop agenda for troop youth leadership training.  Lunch is a bag lunch.  Nothing is said.  It's just lunch.  Scouts grab a bag.  It's just that one bag has the deserts.  One has the meats.  One has the bread.  One has the sides.  One has the condiments.  The scouts are to figure out they need to work together and to be fair to each other.  I always feel bad for the scout that grabs the deserts and has to surrender that prize.


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#185 Eagledad

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 10:15 AM

Too long of a thread to fully read ... Reminds me of our troop agenda for troop youth leadership training.  Lunch is a bag lunch.  Nothing is said.  It's just lunch.  Scouts grab a bag.  It's just that one bag has the deserts.  One has the meats.  One has the bread.  One has the sides.  One has the condiments.  The scouts are to figure out they need to work together and to be fair to each other.  I always feel bad for the scout that grabs the deserts and has to surrender that prize.

You just described the intent of today's Wood Badge course in a nut shell.

 

Barry


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"Experience is the hardest teacher. It gives the test first, then the lesson."


#186 Col. Flagg

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 10:36 AM

I wouldn't want a bag of deserts either.  ;)  :p

 

But if I had the bag of desserts, you'd be able to see the cloud of smoke my heels were kicking up pretty easily as I run away. :D


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#187 RememberSchiff

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 10:40 AM

Older son would have eaten all the desserts. Younger son would have sold the desserts. Both would had declared a WIN. :laugh:


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#188 TAHAWK

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 05:53 PM

You just described the intent of today's Wood Badge course in a nut shell.

 

Barry

The intent of today's Wood Badge is to hand out "bags" with unknown contents, some much better other?  

 

I'm diabetic.  Candy is the Booby Prize.  Others might be vegetarians or vegans.  Who is the final arbiter of what is of value to each or particular recipients of the "bags"?  You?

 

The recipients are not told what they are to accomplish with the contents of these "bags"?   You have witnessed the current version of Wood Badge?

 

Recalling that the claim was as to the "intent" of Wood Badge, as opposed to the success with which the intent is realized:

 

Older son would have eaten all the desserts. Younger son would have sold the desserts. Both would had declared a WIN. :laugh:

 

 

The Objectives of Wood Badge

 

Wood Badge has four specific objectives: As a result of attending Wood Badge, participants will be able to:

 

x View Scouting globally, as a family of interrelated, values-based programs that provide age-appropriate activities for youth.

 

x Recognize the contemporary leadership concepts utilized in corporate America and leading government organizations that are relevant to our values-based movement.

 

x Apply the skills they learn from their participation as a member of a successful working team.

 

x Revitalize their commitment by sharing in an overall inspirational experience that helps provide Scouting with the leadership it needs to accomplish its mission on an ongoing basis.

 

 

Older son would have eaten all the desserts. Younger son would have sold the desserts. Both would had declared a WIN.  :laugh:

 

Who would the Servant have been?  Younger son?

 

Older son would have eaten all the desserts. Younger son would have sold the desserts. Both would had declared a WIN.  :laugh:

 


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#189 MrBob

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 06:56 PM

The Objectives of Wood Badge

 

Wood Badge has four specific objectives: As a result of attending Wood Badge, participants will be able to:

 

x Recognize the contemporary leadership concepts utilized in corporate America and leading government organizations that are relevant to our values-based movement.

 

So, how to run a fiscally-irresponsible debt-driven Troop program that focuses on quarterly JTE metrics, outsource Troop leadership a consulting company, and back-fill shrinking patrols with H1-B visa holders?  

 

I can't wait for the rank-advancement kiosks to start popping up.


Edited by MrBob, 12 April 2017 - 06:58 PM.

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#190 TAHAWK

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 06:57 PM

Wrong concepts.


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#191 Col. Flagg

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 08:55 AM

So, how to run a fiscally-irresponsible debt-driven Troop program that focuses on quarterly JTE metrics, outsource Troop leadership a consulting company, and back-fill shrinking patrols with H1-B visa holders?  

 

I can't wait for the rank-advancement kiosks to start popping up.

 

You've just described how most associations are run. ;)

 

Well-run companies don't run as you describe.


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#192 JasonG172

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 03:27 PM

Direction. Not everyone leaves feeling fulfilled from the course, but that doesn't mean the course is wrong for everyone. Many folks find their calling in the BSA as a result of the course. 

 

 

 

^ This X100 and many life long friends!


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#193 ParkMan

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 08:15 PM

A while back, I heard a course director say about Wood Badge: "is it for everyone, no.  But, if you approach it with an open mind and a desire to get something from the course, many find it to be a great experience."

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#194 Back Pack

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 07:13 AM

A good course should not require an open mind. The curriculum and presentation should open even the most closed mind.
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#195 TAHAWK

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 09:14 AM

There is a theory that it is inefficient to spend "sales" effort on either those who support or those who oppose an idea.  Each of those groups already has ego invested in a position - for or against.

 

Instead, the theory goes, the target should be those who are neutral - open-minded on the question.


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#196 ParkMan

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 09:17 PM

That's what I've found too.  You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.

 

Wood Badge is great - but even in the best courses the staff are not miracle workers.  I know plenty of "my way or the highway" scouters for whom Wood Badge is a waste of time.  I'd like to think you could get them excited about the materials, but it's just not their thing.

 

I'm also a realist enough to know that the Wood Badge content isn't perfect.


Edited by ParkMan, 19 April 2017 - 09:19 PM.

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#197 Back Pack

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 09:40 PM

You can also have open minded and experienced Scouters who have a high degree of advanced education, and been through more than enough corporate team building, visioning, leadership and management training, for which WB is seen as yet another event of the same ilk. And therefore not worth the time.

This doesn't mean someone with less training, education or exposure won't find at least one thing to take away.
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#198 TAHAWK

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 10:53 PM

All true.   My company sent me to Situational Leadership led by Blanchard personally thirteen years before I attended the latest WB.   That experience reduced the "newness" of many of the concepts.  

 

Still, it was a chance to watch the presenters and try to pick up lessons technique (good or less than that) and to try to figure out what was going on co,pared to the first two versions of WB.

 

The debriefing after the Game of Life was new to me and made sense given the difference between Scouting, where we need more adults, and the business world, where companies do not need the hyper competitive who won't be team players. 


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#199 krikkitbot

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 10:38 AM

I just went through this over the weekend. Holy cow! The emotions that people feel after this game are amazing. Even more interesting than the game itself. 

 

People don't like having a mirror held up to them and seeing something different than what they thought they looked like. 

 

I've been through plenty of leadership trainings so I knew early on what the goal of the exercise was. Even still, I think it was a worthwhile exercise. 

 

It's a very emotionally charged exercise and fully believe that if one is open minded, there is a lot to learn from it. 


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#200 Sentinel947

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 02:23 PM

All true.   My company sent me to Situational Leadership led by Blanchard personally thirteen years before I attended the latest WB.   That experience reduced the "newness" of many of the concepts.  

 

Still, it was a chance to watch the presenters and try to pick up lessons technique (good or less than that) and to try to figure out what was going on co,pared to the first two versions of WB.

 

The debriefing after the Game of Life was new to me and made sense given the difference between Scouting, where we need more adults, and the business world, where companies do not need the hyper competitive who won't be team players. 

 

I had an interesting take on 21st Century WB. I went to NYLT in 2009 and WB in 2015. I found it useful as it helped me reorient myself from "youth leader" to "adult adviser." I think the single greatest aspect of WB is being around other folks that live and breath Scouting. Those discussions with your Troop Guide or Patrol Members about how your troop does things vs how their troops do things I found very helpful. 

 

The Management theory stuff is kind of hit or miss. If you go to Wood Badge to pick up management theory and have seen it before, it's a waste of time. 


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