Woodbadge, big whup?

[PACK15NISSAN 10]

Okay, first I am not knocking woodbadge, so please don't come out with swords blazing assuming that I am saying woodbadge is bad or a waste a time. From my observations at district and council level I just don't see what the big deal is.

 

Again, I haven't done any national training or any training out side of my council, however I have worked with some scouters from other councils, but these are my observations.

 

Is woodbadge really all that is hyped up to be, all that I have seen is it seems to bring people closer together, to form a kind of resource circle for scouters. It doesn't make great leaders, it does seem to make some more assertive, however at best results seem minimal. They way everyone around here boasts, is that woodbadge is the culmination of training for the creme of the crop. I have seen crappy leaders come out slightly less crappy and adequete leaders become decent ones, but it certainly doesn't make some one a better leader.

 

Also, it seems to blow up what some one can do and who some one is because they have this training. During our Webelos resident camp, as a patrol leader I ran into (for the first time) this false notion that woodbadge makes some one a better leader. I went to the camp director to check in a scout who had just arrived and was told that he was in group 1 and to take him to that leader "Mrs. X". I told her that I was the leader of group 1, and that "Mrs. X" helped. She asked if I had taken woodbadge (Mrs. X had), I told her no. She acted like I was a second rate scouter because I don't have this training. I ran circles around Mrs. X and her woodbadge training, if she was an example of what woodbadge teaches I would never take the course.

 

I continue to see this trend in our Pack, Troop, Round-Tables and in other training events. Personally I would consider doing the course but I can't any leanancy on missing the 2 Sunday mornings because I want to attend my own church, not the watered down camp services. (our woodbadge course is 2, 3 day weekends). Not only do I see it in the sucess of my group but I am told it by other scouters and parents that I am a good leader, better than many of the woodbadge people.

 

Maybe our council is running it wrong but does woodbadge make you a better leader? Is is supposed to? What does this course really teach you?

 

I really wish there was a way to get around the whole church issue for me but I guess I am just one person, and I won't compromise my religious beliefs for some training, especially one that seems to be sub par at best.

[nolesrule 58]

Well, you can say all that about any training on any subject in or out of scouting.

 

Doctors, lawyers, accountants, contractors, plumbers, teachers (and I could keep adding to the list) take training, get degrees and certifications, etc. Doesn't necessarily make them good ones.

 

Some people take Wood Badge for the beads. Some take it to improve themselves as Scouters.(This message has been edited by nolesrule)(This message has been edited by nolesrule)

[Basementdweller 608]

I have also ran into the Respect my beads attitude. Wood badge snobbery as I call it. Women wood badgers have it tough, for the most part they do not have had the youth scouting experience to draw from. If that is an excuse.

 

I have met some great scouters, male and female, who have attended wood badge, but I suspect wood badge had nothing to do with it. The less than scouting scouter tendency gets amplified, Look at my new bobble I am superior to you and you must listen and obey me. Well the last apart is an exaggeration, but you get my point.

 

I will attend wood badge at some point, not this year, too many other commitments on the same weekends. I will probably attend after my son crosses over, give me something to do.

 

 

[GernBlansten 10]

We have a freshly minted Woodbadger in our unit. Before WB, he was your typical active parent, helped out when necessary but didn't really stand out. After WB, he is full of enthusiasm and purpose. Haven't seen him be a better leader with the boys or get them into the woods more, just more motivated to work on some our problem areas like website development and communications. He is a bit of an WB evangelical now, that kinda wears thin.

[Lisabob 13]

I don't think that WB (or any other course) is going to take a poor leader and make them over into a great, or even good, leader. Garbage in, garbage out.

 

I do think WB is the most useful scout training I ever participated in and I do recommend it. Among other things, it helps motivate participants. Yes Gern, the evangelical Wood Badge sermon can get old. On the other hand, at least you have a parent who is gung ho about tackling matters that others haven't had the time or energy for.

 

One thing I liked about Wood Badge was that it is the only place, save perhaps this board, where I got to spend real time talking about scouting with dedicated scouters. That alone helped me re-invigorate and re-shape my view of what scouting can be, in a very positive way. For newer leaders, this might be an eye opener. For more seasoned leaders, it might be a refreshing and uplifting change. Either way, every Wood Badger I've ever met comes away from the course with a renewed and deeper commitment to scouting as a movement, in addition to scouting at their unit or positional level.

 

Another thing about Wood Badge that I liked was that it gave me connections to other scouters in the area. And honestly, most of them really were/are the "cream of the crop." Not because they attended WB, but because few lousy scouters would bother to attend Wood Badge so there's a big self-selection issue there.

 

The third thing I like about Wood Badge is that, when you put all of the above together, you get a chance to think in a serious way about what is working and what isn't working so well in your unit, and how you - in the position you already have - can work to make your unit even better. Honestly, in most units I've ever seen, people are struggling so hard just to keep up with the day-to-day stuff that they rarely have time to think deeper/big-picture thoughts. That's powerful, when you have the time to do so in an environment full of other committed scouters. (And incidentally that's why I wish some folks from my son's unit would attend. I see a lot of our problems stemming from lack of clear vision. If all, or even most, of our adults had a common vision to buy into, it would go a long way toward improving the troop.)

 

Now anybody who waves around their WB credentials as the be-all, end-all or who tries to use their beads as status or power symbols, is an idiot. And it doesn't matter what their gender is. But the same could be said about any number of other credentials too.

 

Well that's my 5 cents (inflation, sorry).

 

 

[Twocubdad 665]

I think Gern describes the intangibles of WB pretty well. I think it's a bit like a college degree or maybe Eagle Scout. WB is an outward demonstration of a level of commitment beyond the ordinary. Like college, there are a whole bunch of folks who have earned the same bona fides through other avenues.

 

As to the WB Snobs, I don't think it's WB that creates the snobbery. It's just more of the same good ol' boy baloney. It's an unfortunate coincidence that if you've been around long enough to be in the good ol' boy club, you've probably been around long enough to take WB too.

[GernBlansten 10]

Anyone who voluntarily gives up a week of their life and some coin for advanced training gets my salute. I don't disparage WBadgers, but I also do think its a panacea. How many of those WBadgers go on to get wilderness first aid? Or climbing instructor certified? Those skills are directly related to outdoor adventures. WB doesn't do that.

 

I'm in the sunset of my BSA volunteer career. I regret now that I did not take WB 5 years ago. I think it would have made me a better leader. But I have at most 2 more years in the unit and I have no desire whatsoever to go through WB and continue volunteering after my son ages out.

[desertrat77 1144]

I've never signed up for WB, nor intend to.

 

Nothing personal, but WB is not a program I'm interested in.

 

First, it strikes me as a club more than anything else. I can see where the fellowship would be very beneficial. But why do we need WB to encourage closer bonds? One would hope that roundtables and such would be the ideal stage for working closer together, but that's another discussion....

 

Second, it's another series of hoops to jump thru. Frankly, after 25 years in the military, I've been through enough training and education to make me look very carefully at what I invest my time in off duty. I'm not saying I've learned it all; just commenting on the time and energy needed to complete WB.

 

I have no problem attending the scouter training needed to certify me as a UC in good standing.

 

But I have zero desire at this stage of life to spend two weekends sitting in the camp mess hall learning about more leadership and management.

 

If WB was the intensive, challenging outdoor/patrol building experience I heard scouters discuss back in the 70s, I might be persuaded.

 

The two weekends in question: I could spend with my family, or with the troop and pack that I work for.

 

(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

[Crew21_Adv 25]

PACK15NISSAN,

 

Greetings!

 

 

I'll try to remain neutral as well.

You asked: Does Wood Badge make you a better leader? Is it supposed to? What does this course really teach you?

 

Yes (if applied). Yes (it is suppose to). It can teach you a few unique items. Maybe a review/refresher for some, but at minimum everyone comes out learning a new technique to apply with the Pack, Troop or Crew.

 

Here are my thoughts.

 

There are many places where you can read about the five central themes of Wood Badge, with the current curriculum Wood Badge for the 21st Century. Without restating the themes, I feel that Wood Badge teaches goal setting and accomplishing those goals.

 

I have stated to subordinates that if you do not write personal goals down (no matter what format you may use; WB ticket, five year plan, POA&M, benchmark vision), you probably will not attain those goals. Creating goals, writing them down, and allowing a coach/confidant to mutual check your goals and you may reach them.

 

In addition to setting and accomplishing goals, Wood Badge allows a learner to focus. Sometimes changing the mind of a too laid-back registered Scouter. From "I will just be there when my Pack or Troop calls", to "I will manage an event that will specifically assist in the Advancement Program". Additionally, it helps network with other leaders with similar goals.

 

My only disappointment. As Wood Badge for Boy Scout Leaders and Wood Badge for Cub Scout Trainers merged into the Wood Badge for the 21st Century, we then desired all adult leaders to attend within their first two years of becoming a leader. Great, I applaud that notion, and I applaud that Cub Scout leaders are attending Wood Badge now.

 

Statistically Cub Scouts about four times the population of Boy Scouts, and many times the population of Venturers. Cub Scouts just happens to be where most of Scouting is at, and most Cubs (and families) just do not bridge over into Scouting.

 

But I've seen more than a few Wood Badgers whom have attended WB21C as a Cub Scout Den Leader, eventually join Boy Scout troops and just go on cruise control thru their son's Boy Scout tenure. Not leading too many events, not really stepping up to the plate again. They are not bad people, but just not effective Boy Scout leaders. Mainly, because they feel that they have already accomplished their "commitment" to Scouting. I am in no way against these Wood Badgers, but I only wish they could "work their ticket" and accomplish more goals during their Boy Scout tenure.

 

Regarding the attitude that you received during your Webelos Resident Camp. That should not have happened exactly that way. Sometimes the beads are just a quick indication of accomplishment. True, you cant tell a book by its cover; but it is just like Human Resource directors making a snapshot decision.

 

Would you hire the 22 y/o walking in with his associate degree from the local community college, or would you hire 22 y/o carrying his Yale diploma with him? I too, if I just met two Scouters (without any prior knowledge of them) one with beads and one without beads, I would immediately identify with the training that the Wood Badger had attended. Making a snapshot decision, I could prove myself wrong down the road. But statistically the chances are lower, by siding with the established credentials.

 

So, yes. Maybe a Camp Director did not recognize your Scouting skills, but the second rate Scouter treatment should not have happened.

]

Anyways... I would highly advise attending. You will either get alot from the course, or (at worse) just a few skills and some personal goals.

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

 

[asm 411 10]

You go in with what you got, you come out with is much as you want to carry.

 

I believe I am a better Scouter because I went to Wood Badge. I am also a better Scouter every time I read new or old Handbooks for the Scouts, Scoutmasters and Patrol Leaders. I am a better Scouter every time I time I take any other BSA training courses.

 

I was very lucky I was put in a patrol in which 6 out my 7 patrol members were Eagle Scouts. The one who was not an Eagle was not and Eagle only because SHE was did not meet the first requirement. She certainly had the heart.

 

None of us needed to prove anything and all of us were willing to step up right away when it was time to get something done. Best bunch of Scouters I ever got to work with.

 

I would not trade my WB for 21st experience for anything.

 

How would I change Wood Badge if anyone asked my opinion. I think teaching Scouters how to inject the Patrol Method into our troops and how to let the scouts plan and execute those plans needs to be added.

[Eagle92 110]

Again I have not been in either WB, course but I have been through Brownsea 22 and staffed JLT, both of which I am tolded mirrored the old WB program. I've worked with very dedicated and knowledgeable WBers in both courses. When I staffed JLT, I was the only adult who was NOT either working their ticket or had their beads. The SM equated my Brownsea 22 experience with WB. Sad to say one of the WBers, a 3 beader to be precise, did have that arrogant attitude towards me. That's ok, I think I proved my abilities when I served as SPL for that course. Maybe b/c I had a good rep in my old council, but no one really gave me any attitude about not being a WBer.

 

I would not worry about any attitudes. Just "Do Your Best," cheerfully serve the youth in the your council, and let your actions speak louder than your words.

 

 

As for not wanting to attend WB, I have mixed emotions. Part of me understands where Desertrat is coming from. i get enough leadership and management classes from work, I'ld rather spend the WB time doing family stuff or some thing with the pack. Plus the financial issues involved. The course IS expensive, and unlike the old course I cannot get continuing ed credits, even though WB21C is basically a management course geared towards scouting. Added to that is the fact is that WB21C is not the course I learned of and promised myself I would take someday. It appears that alot of the outing in Scouting no longer takes place. Yeah technology has come up with better things than a lashed tripod and flip chart for presentations, bu thte classes were in the outdoors, not in a dining hall. Personally from what I've read, POWDERHORN gives more outdoor experience than WB21C.

 

As to why I do want to take the course. #1 I did set a goal many years ago that I would go through WB and earn those beads. WB was the ultimate in training way back when (there was no Powderhorn and no post WB course at Philmont like today), and the men and women who wore those beads were the best, and also the most humble. It's funny even though my SM was a WBer, he rarely wore his beads. In fact I didn't know what WB was until going through Brownsea 22. Those adult staffers and my SM made a very good impression on me and I want to be like them when I finally grow up

 

#2 The WB comraderie, no matter where you take the course, is awesome. Look at this thread. look at the WB reunions. I'm heavily involved in the OA and have lots of friends. And at times at nite, discussions will go to WB among my group, especially since 3 of the folks went through the same course, 1 was a staffer, and 1 went through the course with the staffer. Sometimes I feel a little left out.

 

Again I think I gonna do Powderhorn before WB. Who knows, maybe by the time I do WB, they will bring back some of the old WB material.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Eagle92 110]

That last post got me to thinking, one of the great things about about this board. yes WB is important, but THE most important thing in Scouting is not WB, or training, or whatever. IT IS ABOUT THE YOUTH!!!!! As long as we can provide a good program for our CS, the knowledge, skills, and abilities for our BS and Venturers to grow physcially, mentally, and morally, and create their own program, then that is what ALL of us should be focused on, not who has the most bling, including beads, on their uniforms.

 

A very wise Marine humbly said one time when someone commented on the numerous decorations he wore that they were mementos of a "misspent youth"

[evmori 11]

I've been to Wood Badge, the old course, and loved every minute of it. Learned tons. Did it make me a better leader? I don't know if better is the correct word. I do feel my leadership skills were broadened & enhanced from Wood Badge.

 

We had some of those WB snobs around, too. Ignored them. They will always be there.

[gcnphkr 11]

As others have said, Woodbadge gives what you put in. It will not make a bad scouter a great scouter (although it might motivate an uncommitted scouter to become a great scouter). Around here I've not seen a deference to Woodbadgers, although I'd be more likely to call on someone with beads than I would a stranger without. I don't see much of an "I went to Woodbadge" air of superiority, although, there is one adult in our unit that I suspect took it to confirm all the things that he thinks I am doing wrong.

 

Here are some benefits of taking Woodbadge:

 

Motivation. Here in Mormon Country most of the participants are LDS. They were told they were going to be a scout leader. The were told to go to training. The were told to go to Woodbadge. Often this is the first time they interact with traditional scout leaders or scouters who love scouting. Often they finally get it. This can happen to traditional leaders as well. If nothing else, a person should leave Woodbadge with a vision of what they are doing.

 

Working your ticket. It helps you accomplish things that you likely never would have done without it. Learning about yourself while working your ticket. One of my goals is to visit other units' troop meetings to find things that will improve our program. But doing this has shown me my critical side as well and helped me see that I can work through it. Could you do these sort of things without Woodbadge? Sure, but most don't and the ticket should make you do at least somethings that you never would have otherwise.

 

The relationships. It has greatly expanded my pool of resources, far beyond what your can get at Roundtable.

 

It is fun. I can say that I had more fun on those two weekends than I have had in a long time on scout outings. For 6 days I got to be a scout again without all the headaches of being a scouter.

 

And finally, I get to sing that goofy song.

 

You might check with neighboring councils. Most of the courses out here are Thursday - Saturday.

 

I used to be a Beaver.

[Eagledad 2779]

>>She asked if I had taken woodbadge (Mrs. X had), I told her no. She acted like I was a second rate scouter because I don't have this training. I ran circles around Mrs. X and her woodbadge training, if she was an example of what woodbadge teaches I would never take the course.