Wood Badge lost its wood and Baden Powell

[combsc 10]

I worked with a pretty good troop for about twelve years. After a couple of the adult leaders went to Wood Badge we saw what it could do for the troop and we really promoted it. At one time we had about 55 boys and seven Wood Badge trained leaders. Some things were harder having so many adult leaders actively working with the troop but it was real nice being able to miss a troop meeting or campout and feel like it would not hurt the troop. With the two deep leadership requirement it made is also easier when it was necessary to split the troop up for some variation in the programs for younger and older scouts.

 

The one single thing that I beleive we did not do a great job with was the boy leadership. We had troop and patrol elections and junior leader training. We had a boy in all the leadership positions but the boys just did not seem to want the leadership roles nor did they put much effort into their leadership role. They would do ok but we had to constantly remind them they needed to lead and told them when they needed a PLC meeting, etc.

 

After taking Wood Badge myself, I was really frustrated about the boys not trying harder in their leadership positions. From my own days in the Boy Scouts as a scout, I remembered the patrol organization and the boy leadership seemed to work pretty good.

 

On a trip back home to Kentucky one year I went and visited with my old scoutmaster and told him about how frustrating it was because I remember how well our old troop worked. I will never forget the cute little look in his eye when he chuckled and told me "things were not always like you remember them". It was his way of telling me that our boy leadership was not as smooth and responsible as I remembered them to be. He made me feel quite a bit better about my role as an adult leader. I need to talk to some of the boys I have worked with who are now engineers, teachers, doctors, etc. and find out how they remember the boy leadership in our troop.

 

Best wishes everyone!

 

[Fat Old Guy 11]

" From my own days in the Boy Scouts as a scout, I remembered the patrol organization and the boy leadership seemed to work pretty good."

 

I wasn't a Boy Scout but I recall a youth in which if we didn't take steps to make many things happen, they didn't happen. After Little League was over, we made up our own teams and ran our own baseball leage. We did the same with touch football. Things may not have been perfect but no parents were involved. I know that my experience isn't unique. If I wanted to get someplace after school, I hoofed it or took the bus.

 

The other day we were discussing rechartering and the Scouts that hadn't paid yet. The adults started breaking up the list to make phone calls but I suggested calling the PLs and having them call their Scouts. Boy! Was I shot down. "That's too much for a kid to do. You can't expect a Scout to remember to ask his parents for a check."

 

(This message has been edited by Fat Old Guy)

[Adrianvs 10]

I'm glad to see that a thread on Wood Badge has naturally turned to the troop program. Regarding their experience with the WB course, someone remarked:

 

"Could I point to a specific aspect of the program that made it great? Yes, but it's the one that's been constant from the inception of the course -- comraderie. We had a good troop, but I have a great patrol. The 6 of us hit it off right away and had a blast."

 

It seems to me that part of working any ticket should be helping to make a unit's program so that the feelings a scout has for his unit and patrol are like those that a course participant has for his Gilwell troop and patrol. The role-playing form of training is an excellent one as long as people realize that what they experience is to be translated into a unit program.

[Fat Old Guy 11]

" We had a good troop, but I have a great patrol. The 6 of us hit it off right away and had a blast."

 

When I went to Scoutmaster School we operated as a troop with patrols. The patrols met weekly and we got to know each other well. Not too long ago, I saw one of my old patrol members across a parking lot so I gave our patrol yell, he turned and returned the call. Oddly, the training team has come under fire to discontinue following this model of training.

[combsc 10]

Fat Old Guy has brought out how some folks don't like the role play comraderie type stuff in the course like patrol yells and the stong personal friendships that are formed in Wood Badge.

 

I think they miss out on a large part of the training really trying to promote the patrol method used in scouting.

 

I think it is a real hoot that during the first weekend of the course some of the guys have a hard time buying into all the enthusiasm stuff like patrol yells and totems but by the end of the course they have jelled with their other patrol memebers and have totally bought into the patrol environment and having fun with the group. That is much of what scouting is all about - being a kid and having a good time. Some of us at times loose site of the need for things to be fun in order to keep the boys in the program. If it is not fun to them they will not stay and/or get much out of the program.

 

I think some folks do not like this kind of stuff after the practical part of the course ends because it can be viewed a cliquish. But to put in more modern day terms - it is a fun way to establish a support network that makes you feel free to call upon any of the guys at any time for sharing resources, information, ideas, and problems. Networking is pretty important for any leader.

 

After the course the patrol members are mostly just close friends who have established some close common ties in something they enjoy and that is scouting.

 

 

[Fat Old Guy 11]

"Fat Old Guy has brought out how some folks don't like the role play. . . "

 

I didn't mean that the participants were complaining. The powers-that-be don't like the system. One complaint that I heard from a member of the Council Training Staff was that my district's way of doing things infringed on Wood Badge territory. The fact that the course graduated enthusiastic leaders seems to be irrelevant.

[combsc 10]

There are a lot of folks out there like my dad. My dad has the subconcious attitude that "he might not always be right but by god he is never wrong". He like a bunch of other folks do not accept the concept of "opions" because if you don't agree with them you are surely wrong.

 

Like a lot of disagreements everyone may be correct in what they are saying in respects to one part of an issue. Experts in every walk of like constantly disagree. It goes back to the diversity training, take the best of what everyone brings to the table an make the best use of it. Those with closed minds have cut their potential for doing their best. The purpose of most meetings is to exchange ideas in an effort to come up with the best combination of them.

 

I sure wish I would follow my own advice sometimes. It is kind of frustrating to sometimes feel I am so right that don't really listen to what others have to say.

[Bob White 20]

It is highly unlikely that the Council Training committee has any problem with a Disrtict developing esprit d'corps in Scoutleader basic training courses such as Scoutmaster Leader Specific Training and Introduction to Outdoor Skills, since both include adult Patrols and fun as part of the course design.

 

More likely the District training team has taken it upon themselves to amble away from the course syllabus and learning goals expanding it into the older Wood Badge topics. This would get the attention of any good councl Training Chair. The new training courses are designed as a continuum with each step acting as a stepping stone to the next. To stray from the specific modules of any course does not serve the volunteer or the prigram.

 

I'm sure if the participants got the correct course presented, and developed strong fellowship, the council would have no concerns what-so-ever.

 

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Fat Old Guy 11]

"It is highly unlikely that the Council Training committee has any problem with a Disrtict developing esprit d'corps in Scoutleader basic training courses such as Scoutmaster Leader Specific Training and Introduction to Outdoor Skills, since both include adult Patrols and fun as part of the course design."

 

You're absolutely right Bob, I have no idea what that fellow from the Council Training Committee was talking about. Maybe the whole thing was a figment of my imagination.

 

Of course, the way that the old course ran from start to finish with one group of people broken into patrols was far different than the new system that goes in fits and starts with the patrols existing for a week or two before vanishing to be reformed with different people for the next phase of training. Of course, the District Training staff that's been working as a team for 20 years doesn't have a clue about training people.

 

I'm sorry Bob White, I should have never brought the whole matter up because as we all know, all change from BSA is change for the good and to criticize said changes just shows that we are evil people.

[Bob White 20]

"You're absolutely right Bob, I have no idea what that fellow from the Council Training Committee was talking about."

 

I knew it was only a matter of time before we agreed on something.

 

"Of course, the way that the old course ran from start to finish with one group of people broken into patrols was far different than the new system that goes in fits and starts with the patrols existing for a week or two before vanishing to be reformed with different people for the next phase of training."

 

Which proves my point. There is no scout leader training that is structured in the way you suggest. No wonder your council is concerned.

 

"Of course, the District Training staff that's been working as a team for 20 years doesn't have a clue about training people."

 

You have more direct contact with them so I will presume that this is an accurate portrayal that you offer. It is more likely that they have the teaching skills but have failed to keep up with today's training programs from the description you have provided.

 

Bob White

[Eagledad 2779]

Great Scouting Day All

 

>>To stray from the specific modules of any course does not serve the volunteer or the prigram. I'm sure if the participants got the correct course presented, and developed strong fellowship, the council would have no concerns what-so-ever.>In my very unimportant personal opinion, they should have changed the name to Advanced Scouting Leadership Training and used the Wood Badge for the 21st Century pentigon logo for the official course emblem.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

I took the new Wood Badge, on the first day I found out I was to be a Bear (and a good ol'bear too)

 

The first week end I spent camping with my fellow Bears, every day for the six days of WB I camped with my fellow Bears (One lone female even, in her own tent of course, then again we all had tents to ourselves.) Everyday a new Bear was patrol leader, asst patrol leader etc. We had our patrol yell, patrol flag and web site. During the time between the two weekends we had two patrol meetings to work on our patrol project.

 

At my our Districts recent Roundtable myself and a fellow patrol Bear received our beads. One of our fellow patrol members from another District came by to see our Ceremony.

 

How much more of a patrol emphasis was there in the "Good Ol'WB"?(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[Fat Old Guy 11]

" There is no scout leader training that is structured in the way you suggest. No wonder your council is concerned."

 

Sure there is. There different segements are offered as discrete courses with no need to do them all and are promoted by the council as a "take what you can, when you can" system. No continuity of patrols there, if they are used at all.

 

One of our ASMs went to another district for his training, the new stuff. His "patrol" was only required to meet as a patrol once and that was before the outdoor segment. No patrol cheers, flags, or comaraderie.

 

Of course, we all have to recognize that no one in the world has a clue about anything related to Scouting unless they come from the midwest.

 

"t is more likely that they have the teaching skills but have failed to keep up with today's training programs from the description you have provided."

 

Of course you are right which explains why so many Scouters from other districts made the effort to come to our training. Word spread about the crappy training and the renegade trainging staff and motivated people drive 50 miles out of their way to attend these sessions.(This message has been edited by Fat Old Guy)

[Bob White 20]

" There is no scout leader training that is structured in the way you suggest. No wonder your council is concerned."

 

FOG says "Sure there is".

 

Fine, which one? There are only two basic level courses designed specifically for Scoutmasters and Assistant Scoutmasters, and only one advanced course. Which one does not use patrol method?

 

"One of our ASMs went to another district for his training, the new stuff. His "patrol" was only required to meet as a patrol once and that was before the outdoor segment. No patrol cheers, flags, or comaraderie."

 

Thats a shame. That is also not a the fault of the training course but an error of the training team or the patrol themselves. What kept them from devloping those things? I the staff told them not to thten they made a bad decision. If the patrol chose not to then it is their own fault. Either way that was a local problem, they didn't follow the course.

 

The problem is FOG you think the courses are flawed when in fact you have no idea what the course content should be. You only know the little bit you have done, and hearsay from others, and it appears that you you saw was not the course the BSA released. So you have no real grounds to judge the BSA courses on.

 

EagleDad is right, the courses are shorter and there is less material on Patrol Method but it is still used and covered. There are updates coming on all levels. The Cub Basic has just had updates released on every cub course and on New Leaders Essentials. I expect the same to happen with the SM training. But that does not excuse a Training Team from not following the current program. Yes National does allow local adaptation, but a good Council Training Chair would see that the content outlined for each specific course gets covered and that programs do not stray into other training module arears.

 

Bob White

 

 

[Eagledad 2779]

>>the courses are shorter and there is less material on Patrol Method but it is still used and covered.