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#1 acco40

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Posted 12 November 2002 - 04:36 PM

My troop is venturing into Canada this coming weekend. A father (committee member) would like to give a fireworks display. No fireworks would be transported across borders or stored with any of the troop equipment. No boys would be handling fireworks. I told him I did not think it would be a good idea. From the Guide to Safe Scouting: Fireworks secured, used, or displayed in conjunction with program and activities is unauthorized except where the fireworks display is conducted under the auspices of a certified or licensed fireworks control expert. The selling of fireworks as a fund-raising or money-earning activity by any group acting for or on behalf of members, units, or districts may not be authorized by councils. We would not be selling or purchasing (with troop funds) any fireworks. We will be on private property (secluded area, near a lake) owned by a member of the troop. Comments? P.S. Nobody in the troop is a licensed or certified fireworks expert.
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#2 ASM7

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Posted 12 November 2002 - 04:56 PM

The answer is No. Besides, whats the reason for the fireworks anyway?
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#3 evmori

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Posted 12 November 2002 - 05:44 PM

NO Let me repeat that. NO! Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10
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#4 Bob White

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Posted 12 November 2002 - 05:59 PM

NO! Besides the huge risk that a boy might be injured at the hands of a "hobbyist" handling explosives rather than a trained and certified professional, there is the financial harm that could befall every adult on that outing should a boy or boys be injured. The liability umbrella protecting scouters who follow the policies of scouting would disappear, leaving every adult vulnerable to a civil lawsuit that could devastate the family's finances. Each adult would be responsible for the cost of their own legal defense, and any fines or penalties that resultd from a law suit. In addition, the insurance companies that would provide medical care for the injuried parties, whether the family's insurance company or the scouting insurer, would turn around and sue the leaders to subrogate their loses. It's not worth the risk to anyone to violate the BSA safety policies. Bob White
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#5 Eagle74

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Posted 12 November 2002 - 09:43 PM

Liability, Liability, Liability. If for no other reason, a risk management approach indicates there is absolutely no gain for the risk taken. This one is like sticking your behind through the fence and hoping the horse won't kick it. From the information provided, it appears that you won't meet the basic requirements set forth by BSA. Further, check the law for the area of Canada that you will be in: "Federal regulations prohibit the use of firecrackers and bottle rockets in Canada. Only low-hazard recreational fireworks may be used by the general public and then, only in areas where local bylaws do not prohibit their use."
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#6 OldGreyEagle

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Posted 12 November 2002 - 10:02 PM

Why not have the troop do as a group (not during a troop meeting of course, oops another thread) the Space Exploration merit badge, then on your camp out hold a moon light launch, you all get to see streaks of light in the night, the boys finish a merit badge, and its all legal (be sure to follow safety procedures)
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#7 red feather

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Posted 12 November 2002 - 10:45 PM

ditto to all of the above. YIS
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#8 Eagle74

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Posted 13 November 2002 - 12:07 AM

Good alternate activity OGE. Add a mini cyalume light stick (about 1-1/4" x 1/8", sometimes hard to find) to the rocket or the chute pack and you can watch them come down, too.
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#9 acco40

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Posted 13 November 2002 - 08:28 AM

Thanks for your input. I knew it was not a good idea (I told him I did not think it would be a good idea.) but I wanted more 'ammunition" and you all provided it. Normally I would have given a firm "no" but we will be staying on private property and it is the owner who wanted to give the fireworks display. Well intentioned yes, but not a good idea. Again, thanks.
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#10 KoreaScouter

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Posted 13 November 2002 - 07:08 PM

This comes up more often than it should, as do other activities that are perfectly okay when done as a family, but not permitted as Troop activities by BSA policy, such as go-kart riding or paintball. It should be obvious to anyone reading the GTSS that the BSA intent is to allow a Troop to attend a public fireworks show such as the type that a city will put on for Independence Day, by a licensed/insured company, with safe distances, fire prevention, etc., all factored into the planning. The "dad in the backyard" launch-a-coffee-can-with-an-M80 type activity is definitely out. Sometimes it takes constant but gentle reminders... KS
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#11 SR540Beaver

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Posted 14 November 2002 - 10:38 AM

Wait! I agree with everyone else's statements, but.... acco40 states in later posts that the event will be on private property and the person shooting the fireworks is the owner of the land. While still not a good idea, as long as the owner wants to shoot the fireworks on his land and it is away from the troop and the owner is not part of the leadership, I don't know that anyone could tell him no. Acco40, tell me if I got the scenario right.
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#12 Bob White

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Posted 14 November 2002 - 10:55 AM

Actually kxc57, the BSA does not care who owns the property. It is the type of activity and the qualifications of the person handling the explosives that they are regulating. Since it involves a scouting event the BSA can set whatever restrictions they choose. they are not telling the land owner what they can do on their property, they are telling the scout leadewrs what they can and cannot do with the scouts. BW
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#13 SR540Beaver

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Posted 14 November 2002 - 11:27 AM

Bob, I understand that. My point is that if the guy has 40 acres and he shoots them 20 or 30 acres away from the scouts on his own, does that mean the scout leadership should cancel the trip if they knew he was going to do it? They would not be taking part in the fireworks display or even be close to it. It would only be visible to them from a distance.
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#14 evmori

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Posted 14 November 2002 - 11:31 AM

kwc57, Yes the trip should be cancelled or rescheduled for another location. Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10
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#15 Bob White

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Posted 14 November 2002 - 11:54 AM

Ed is right. since you have knowledge that the event you are exposing the scouts to is not being operated in an approved fashion you would lose all liability protection if a scout was hurt on the event. BW
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#16 nldscout

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Posted 14 November 2002 - 12:11 PM

Note in the origonal message, this dad that wants to do this is a committee member and he wants to do this for the troop. This is one event that needs to be nipped in the thinking stage. But I do like OGE suggestion.
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#17 acco40

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Posted 14 November 2002 - 02:01 PM

Yes the owner has the legal right to set off fireworks on his property (in accordance with Canadian law) and yes, the BSA does not approve. But the individual in question politely asked for permission from me and I have gracefully denied permission and no problem exists. Again thanks for your feedback.
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