The tin can double elimination method for Pinewood Derby

[CM4045 10]

Does anyone have a written procedure for using numbers and 3 cans for running a double elimination tournament for Pinewood Derby and Raingutter Regatta? We tried it last year and it didn't work out very well. I have set up a double elimination bracket for 64, but it won't work very well if you have odd numbers of entries, like 33 or 48.

[tdyer56 10]

I am the committee chair for my packs pinewood derby. I have found that the double elimination method is not very good. This year we will be using the Perfect-N system. You can find it on the internet. This is a chart generator that allows the boys to race the same number of times on alternating lanes. They are awarded points for the place they come in. After all races are done the boy with the highest number of points wins. I feel this is a better system because of 2 reasons...1. If a boy has 2 bad races..he is done. 2. The boys work had on their cars and want to see them race as much as possible. If you need to know more about it, e-mail me tdyer56@yahoo.com.

 

[CM4045 10]

tdyer56 thanks for the comments. Our Pack came up with a double elimination format that incorporated a round-robin playoff for the last 6 Scouts. We used this recently at our Raingutter Regatta and it worked great. After I initially posted this topic I searched the Internet extensively for PWD info and found many procedures including the one you mentioned. Quite frankly (and nothing personal) I found what I saw to be rather disturbing. I believe that parents have made the PWD extremely over-complicated and have taken the PWD out of the hands of the Scouts. After all, it is a given that the younger Scouts need a fair amount of assistance in making their cars, so whether they win or lose is not necessarily attributable to the Scout. How well the wheels are put on and where the weight is added to the cars are what make the difference - most Scouts won't get those right without parental assistance. So right off the bat the race may not be fair when considering how much parental assistance one Scout recieves versus another. While I commend the efforts to make the competition fair my observation since I have been involved in Scouting the last 3 years is this: The Scouts are only moderately interested in winning. For them The participation and experience of making the cars (and boats and space derby ships) is far more important. Whether or not our double elimination format is the fairest method (which it is not) is not the point. The method is reasonbly fair and the Scouts do not know that it could or could not be more fair (ref. parental assistance comments above). In our Pack we stress "Do your best" and good sportsmanship. I hope that all Packs make these the most important aspects of the competition! If anyone would like a copy of our double elimination/round-robin format, please e-mail me at grhoppen@hotmail.com.

[FScouter 24]

At one of our pack's pinewood derbies, the boy's had the most fun after they were eliminated from the competition. They got together racing their cars around on the floor. Some cars would curve off in a wide circle, others would collide together, others had a wheel fall off and and the car would spin out. It was a hoot!

[NHScouter 10]

I have two additional suggestions to make the PWD fairer and more fun for the Scouts.

 

First, we added a distance race to the night. The finalists in the speed races are not elegible for the distance race. After the cars are eliminated from the speed race, they race for distance and the top 3 winners get a medal (we have trophies for the speed race). One thing to note is that the hight at the beginning of the track should be lowered to about the height of the seat on a folding chair (some of these cars go on forever). Also they will quickly run out of track and there should be a long enough floor area to run out. Mark the best 3 on the floor wit a piece of masking tape.

 

To make the playing field more level, last year we required that all Dens make the PWD cars in the Dens and the leaders would bring the cars to the meetings. Parents were encourage to help out their sons -- but in the den meetings. Yes, it was a lot more work for the den leaders. Yes, we had a lot of complaints from some parents (and we knew which parents would complain the most when we decided to do this). I also saw some dads in my meetings that I don't see all year long. It was also sad to see that one boy who has been consistently in the top 3 every year, who HAD made his car with everyone else in his den, did NOT participate because his dad make his car for him. The big point is that ALL of the boys that participated had fun, and were prouder of a car that they made themselves and lost than a car that dad made and won.

 

It was a good night. The PWD is the one event that I am usually disappointed in the way that lessons are taught to the boys. Some parents do NOT set a good example on PWD night.