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Proper Campsite Attire


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#21 Kahuna

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Posted 16 April 2010 - 03:14 PM

Boys without shirts is an issue? Please tell me I'm not reading this. If this is a big deal in your unit, find another unit. Quickly. Should they wear closed toed shoes while sleeping, too?
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#22 Oak Tree

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Posted 16 April 2010 - 03:23 PM

Yeah, I'm baffled too. I don't think this is a committee issue or a PLC issue. This is a "give-the-guy-a-strange-look" issue. What is his stated concern? I'm curious.
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#23 Phibbles

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Posted 16 April 2010 - 03:25 PM

Does he have a special request for swimming attire too? I agree with Calico and would keep an eye on this ASM just in case. As another suggested, maybe he should move to a Comm position so he doesn't have to go on camping trips anymore.
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#24 JoeBob

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Posted 16 April 2010 - 03:43 PM

If the mosquitos don't make 'em put on a shirt, why should we?
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#25 CalicoPenn

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Posted 16 April 2010 - 04:58 PM

Ok - before we get too far, I want to clarify. Yes, it's possible (though remote) that it's the complainer that may be tempted, but it's more likely that the complainer has trust issues, doesn't know the other adults well enough or is just hyper-aware and is worried about someone else being tempted. Just want to make sure all bases are covered. That and it's even more likely that it's a moral/religious difference.
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#26 Albert_H

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Posted 16 April 2010 - 07:55 PM

OK, just to clarify something, and perhaps it's my fault for the way I have explained things. This is really not that big of a deal in the Troop. It was brought up once at camp last year and now in one committee meeting. The truth of the matter is that everyone likes the ASM in question and doesn't want to hurt his feelings or upset him. In that vain, I am leaving now to meet our SM. We are going over to the ASM's house to speak to him to see if we can understand where he is coming from. Hopefully we can come to some kind of reasonable resolution. By resolution, I mean something that will satisfy him. No one else is really that worried about the situation. Thanks again for all your comments. Al
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#27 evmori

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Posted 16 April 2010 - 09:15 PM

A sleeping uniform inspection is what's needed! ;)
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#28 Albert_H

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Posted 16 April 2010 - 11:33 PM

I'm back from our chat with the ASM. It seems that his concern comes from something that he was told earlier in the week last year at camp. He said that one of the younger Scouts mentioned to him having heard another younger scout make a comment about the muscles of one of the older Scouts. He took it that it was meant in a "sexual" way, but when I asked if he knew that it was intended that way he said no. I explained that many of the younger Scouts look up to the older Scouts as role models and that the comment could have been a totally innocent with a meaning like, "wow, I want to be strong just like Johnny". We also explained that there are rules in place that Scouts are not to be parading around camp shirtless, but that our campsite is our home for the week. Occasionally seeing a boy walk around our campsite shirtless is going to happen and we did not think it was a problem. We further explained that even if we stopped all public displays of bare chests in our campsite, that the boys will still see each other at the showers and at open swim times without shirts on. After three cups of coffee on a chilly night on their patio, we all agreed that it probably wasn't much of a concern. We did say that we would keep our ears open and make sure that there are no rude, crude, or otherwise inappropriate comments concerning anyone's anatomy. However, it will be handled by the SM, and ASMs (if the SPL and PLs need help). We called the Committee Chair from his patio and let her know that there would need to be no action by the committee. She was relieved and said that they would bring it up at the next meeting only to say that it was handled by mutual agreement of the SM and ASMs. Thanks for all your comments. I really needed the conversation for a reality check. Oops, I just stepped on the mouse turd, guess I can put the pole away; no more pole-vaulting over mouse turds! :-) Al
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#29 Beavah

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 12:07 AM

Yah, I had da same reaction as Calico. Seems like the fellow is goin' way out of his way to imagine something "sexual" in a completely innocent context. Folks who do that to my mind merit an extra level of scrutiny and supervision when around young people. Most of da rest of us would never think that way about a kid, eh? So it makes me wonder when somebody does. Glad things were resolved OK Albert_H. Still, hope yeh consider my first paragraph thoughtfully. Beavah
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#30 ScoutNut

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 12:17 AM

I am glad it all worked out in the end. However, one thing still concerns me a bit. >>"It seems that his concern comes from something that he was told earlier in the week last year at camp. He said that one of the younger Scouts mentioned to him having heard another younger scout make a comment about the muscles of one of the older Scouts. He took it that it was meant in a "sexual" way"
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#31 CalicoPenn

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 11:59 AM

Albert, Sounds to me as if everything has worked out ok. Also sounds like there is some hyper-awareness there - not neccessarily a bad thing, but sure can lead to some misunderstandings and mis-interpretations. One great thing about these forums is that while what has been answered may turn out not to apply to the original poster's question, those answers may apply to folks who have similar situations but haven't asked, or for folks who have never had the situation but may in the future. Your question is a great one for all of us to think about, even if we never face it, and to get all the different perspectives. Thanks for it!
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#32 evmori

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 07:15 PM

He was told by a youth of something that he felt could be a potential youth protection issue. Huh? Where do you get that from?
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#33 ScoutNut

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 10:11 PM

"He said that one of the younger Scouts mentioned to him having heard another younger scout make a comment about the muscles of one of the older Scouts. He took it that it was meant in a "sexual" way" Per above, the ASM thought there were "sexual" overtones in the comment. My problem is that he never mentioned what this young Scout told him to anyone at the camp last year. He seems to have been concerned enough that he brings up the shirtless policy again, almost a year later. Yet, he still never tells anyone what that young Scout told him.
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#34 Eamonn

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Posted 18 April 2010 - 11:10 AM

In the not so far off future I will have been around Scouts and Scouting for about fifty years. Sure, a lot of this time was before we had all the YP and all that good stuff. This "Campsite Attire" thing has never been an issue. (Other than when I first came over to the USA in 1977 when the camp staff, after the campers had all gone home would at times go skinny dipping in the camp pool. - But I don't even hear of that happening any more.) I remember when the first Troop I was in folded and I moved to my dearly beloved 17th Fulham (Pioneers) How one of the first things I noticed was how good the Scouts looked! They were all a great shade of brown with great tans. I wanted to look like them. I wanted to not be a white pasty little fellow. Sure this was before all the talk about sun damage came out and I'm sure I didn't know what sun block was or if it was even around. Today I'll admit to at times acting like an old mother hen, chasing our Sea Scouts around with an economy sized bottle of sun block in my hand and at times reminding them that a shirt might help prevent them from getting sun burnt. I'll also own up to teasing OJ about how stupid he looks with his newly pierced nipples, which have resulted in him losing the services of the BOD (Bank of Dad.) The Ship is co-ed. Before trips there is something that the QD came up with about covering up. No thongs or micro-bikinis. So far this has never been a problem. If I remember right the QD came up with this after receiving something from a camp that we had planned to attend which made mention of it. I'm 100% for Scouting being a place where no one gets harmed. If a Lad is uncomfortable removing his shirt or wants to shower in his underwear or swimming gear? That's his choice. Most times after a few trips even the shyest of Lads seem to overcome their shyness by themselves with little or no comments from the other Scouts. For me this just isn't a big deal unless of course we want to make a big deal of it. I suppose if there is need for a dress code? It should be managed by the youth members, just as we did when the camp stated their policy and our Scouts addressed it. The less rules a committee of adults comes up with, the easier it is for me to not have to enforce this stuff. Ea.
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#35 evmori

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Posted 18 April 2010 - 11:31 AM

Just because on ASM thinks a comment like that has sexual overtones doesn't make it a YP issue.
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#36 Eamonn

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Posted 18 April 2010 - 12:36 PM

Yes Ed you are so right. If we are not careful everything becomes an issue and the issues will overwhelm everything we ever hope to do. Like it or not, at some point common sense has to kick in and we have to trust the people that we have selected to take care of our youth. I spent a week at PTC with a woman who somehow managed to turn everything into a YP issue. By the end of the week it was very nearly a AP (Adult Protection) Issue! What I wanted to do to her were a very long way from th Scout Oath and Law. Ea.
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#37 DancesWithSpreadsheets

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Posted 18 April 2010 - 01:17 PM

evmori wrote: "Just because on ASM thinks a comment like that has sexual overtones doesn't make it a YP issue." That's true, but when an ASM thinks that it is, and doesn't say anything about it, it makes you wonder what else he's not coming forward with. Regards, DWS
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#38 ScoutNut

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Posted 18 April 2010 - 02:17 PM

>>"That's true, but when an ASM thinks that it is, and doesn't say anything about it, it makes you wonder what else he's not coming forward with."
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#39 SctDad

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Posted 18 April 2010 - 04:58 PM

here is my 2 cents. Take it for what you like. The boys sleep atire is completely up to them, we should not be in thier tents anyway. THAT is YP If a young man has returned from their evening shower and happens to be outside of the tent without a shirt, that may not be an issue. They just need to understand that (if yo live in an area like I do) there is a chance that they are going to get more insect bites. The daytime factor is something that you can control a little more. This becomes an issue of sunburn. This is a safety issue. Cut and Dry. A sunburned scout makes for a miserable event. Not to mention the days after that it hurts. I can attest to this as I have had this happen to me personally. I got a bad sunburn prior to a military field training mission. Equipment hurts when sunburnt. Having the normal pick-up game of shirts and skins: OK if in the campsite, but on an activity field where every scout and staff member is going by, not so much. There are other times when going shirtless may not be the best, like when cooking. Especially when cooking bacon.
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#40 SSScout

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Posted 18 April 2010 - 08:37 PM

Had to go check out my memory, and yep, it's still there... "Scout Field Book" c.1948, 1959 printing... pg. 83, bare chested "indian" Scouts. pg.129, canoeing and swimming Scouts, sans shirts. pg.149, "construct a shower bath (and) a good wash basin stand". Scouts washing up, shirtless. pg. 150, Shirtless Scout hard at it, chopping down a tree. pg. 175, Scout cooking "planked fish", smoking himself, too, it would appear. pg. 202, "Fun in the Water", etc. WoW!Birling at Scout camp??? pg.216, "indian Scouts" (?OA ? )and pg225, demoing breechclout wear. pg. 231 A pirate skit, bare chest with skull &crossbones painted on. pg. 235' "The indian camp is the place for advanced Scout camping." And there are many more. So what is the problem now? When "FIRE ON THE MOUNTAIN!" was called out, we knew to dress up, 'get more decent' as my old SM would say. It's not your Father's Field Book.....
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