Eagle Mentor Pin on Scout Uniform
Posted 02 May 2012 - 10:47 PM
Posted 03 May 2012 - 09:24 AM
Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:49 AM
Posted 12 July 2012 - 11:19 PM
Posted 13 July 2012 - 12:48 AM
Posted 13 July 2012 - 05:21 PM
Posted 14 July 2012 - 01:31 PM
Posted 15 April 2013 - 10:32 AM
Posted 16 April 2013 - 05:26 AM
Posted 18 April 2013 - 07:15 PM
Posted 24 April 2013 - 08:31 AM
Posted 27 April 2013 - 07:25 PM
At the end of the day, there's a right way to wear everything, and its in the book. But if you want to wear something improperly on purpose, it's you looking silly, not me, so I'm not going to spend my time worrying about it. The only time I insist is formal functions, and even then it's not like someone can just fix a patch on the spot, so what's the point being obnoxious on the spot?
I will say there's nothing like the uniform to make scouts silly. I once had a SPL running around at an Eagle court of honor telling all the boys to take off their merit badge sashes; I asked him just what he thought he was doing. "Today is about Johnny Scout, it's his big day and my dad [the SM] said it's rude for everyone else to be showing off their merit badges." I had a laugh and told him he couldn't be any more wrong.
That's cute, let's take it to its conclusion: The Guide to Advancement is just a guide. The Guide to Safe Scouting is just a guide. The Youth Protection Guidelines are just guidelines. That being the case I can deny a scout his Eagle award because his Pos'n of Responsibility was Scribe, but that's not really an important job, and next campout the boys can set a 20-foot signal tower on fire, and then we can all haze the new kids. Can't break a guideline, right? Right.
BSA uniform "regulations" ... never saw any Uniform regulations, regulations usually have a penalty for violation .... I did see a Insignia Guide once... I would like to have a SM saber though (I'd be ok if it was broken down to a useful length).
Posted 28 April 2013 - 12:02 AM
Posted 28 April 2013 - 12:49 AM
Again, regardless of where you stand on wearing the Mentor Pin anywhere or nowhere, that is a dead end argument. The use of the word "guide" does not abdicate its authority. Would you seriously argue that the Guide to Advancement, Guide to Safe Scouting, or Youth Protection Guidelines are not "rules" or "codes" and can just be ignored because the title says guide instead of commandments? Would you agree if you saw a grown man walking out of the boys' shower and he brushed you off with "'Separate accommodations' Oh you mean that guide not rule, give me a break!" No. So let's be serious.
This is a sensitive topic,and I think it's important that we respect everyone's opinion. However, I feel I need to point out two things. 1. The Uniform Guide is simply a collection of guidelines, not a code, or rule book.
The Guide to Awards and Insignia is the only answer to any question regarding "can I wear this..." or "where should I wear this..." Does that mean that anyone who isn't following those rules should be cashiered? No. It's very simple: You are physically able to be a special snowflake and wear the uniform any way you want, but that does not mean you are not wrong, and don't expect anyone to pat you on the head for it. This sort of word game is simply sophomoric. You wanna be wrong, go nuts, but own it.
Posted 28 April 2013 - 01:27 AM
Posted 28 April 2013 - 10:52 PM
Some people can't see the forest for the trees. Uniform polices can't be compared to polices designed to ensure the health, and safety of program participants. BSA clearly views these things differently, ask any SE how he would react to a uniform violation, and a case of scout abuse ... sophomoric conversation no, instructive discussion, yes. You need to put your focus on the aims of scouting, and while absolutely ensuring the health, safety, and well being of all program participants, do what it takes to accomplish those aims. An image that I always recall at such times is a venerable scouter rising from the table during s heated discussion, picking up a scout handbook, flexing it, and saying "it's flexible, just like the program". In my time in scouting I've seen countless changes to rules, polices, and requirements, but not in scouting's Aims or Methods. How would change ever happen if no one tried anything new, never did things a different way? We are allowed to think for ourselves here, even encouraged to do so. Oh, program deviation, including uniform, is supported by BSA policy, there are even procedures for it /boggle. Loosen the collar a bit, it's good for you.
My collar is always loose; it is against uniform policy to button the collar.
Your argument is that the use of the word "guide" means it is not a rule. Now your position is that "guides" are rules sometimes, but sometimes "guides" are "guides." What an interesting world you live in. But I expect nothing less than you to change your position in regards to any other "guide", because after all that's your stance: shifting sands, whatever floats your boat, man.
As I said, I'm not one to bother anyone about their uniform, you're free to be wrong, but be a big boy and know you're wrong.
Posted 04 March 2017 - 08:46 PM
Since it was asked, and with no idea who the "uniform Police" are in any area:
The normal BSa practice is to couch advise in terms of "should" and rules in terms of "shall. But "normal" does not mean universal, and BSA often is poor about communication.
"The following pages contain our uniform policy as taken from the Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America. The chapters contain applications of the regulations to each program area. Neither the Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America, the policy, nor the program applications may be added to or changed in any way unless approved by the National Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America through its Program Impact Department."
Official Uniforms Clause 2.
The official uniforms authorized as evidence of official relationship to the Boy Scouts of America shall be those approved by action of the Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America from time to time, as illustrated and correctly described in the handbooks, catalogs, and other official publications of the Boy Scouts of America.
Clause 4. Prohibition of Alteration or Imitation.
(a) No alteration of, or additions to, the official uniforms, as described in the official publications, or the rules and regulations covering the wearing of the uniform and the proper combinations thereof on official occasions, may be authorized by any Scouting official or local council or any local executive board or committee, except the Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America after consideration by Council Operations.
All badges and insignia shall remain the property of the Boy Scouts of America subject to recall for cause by the Corporation or its duly authorized representative.
Eagle Mentor pin, gold tone, No. 14123; sterling silver, No. 14127.
For non-parent who was instrumental in the Scout earning his Eagle; nonuniform wear."
Fairly clear by BSA standards, and I strongly disagree with the rule. Imagine the intended recipient running away from the Eagle Scout yelling, "Don't pin it on! Don't pin it on."
That is right up there with hanging up on a Scout who calls asking if you will counsel him on a Merit Badge. After all, one-on-one telephone conversations are expressly prohibited.
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