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Eagle Scout Rank Patch wear after age 18


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#161 mgood777

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 07:49 AM

I'm surprised that Philmont staff were wearing uniforms from their home units.  When I was a staffer at Maine National High Adventure Base in the 80's, we were provided staff uniforms that had gold epaulets, the US flag, the Staff patch and a name tag - and that was it.  No knots, no CSPs (of course not, since we worked for National), no OA Lodge flaps, no other patches of any kind.  Unit uniforms were not allowed - we were employees of National - not members of units, councils and lodges.  Our registration was as National Staff - not a "summer only" camp staff unit.

 

Interesting. When was this?

 

All PhilStaff wore uniforms from their home units if they had them. There were some who showed up without a uniform, and female staff members who had no uniform. Most of these people just wore the staff polo shirt with the uniform shorts. If they wore the "Class A" shirt, they bought one off the rack at the trading post, hung the Philmont Staff Arrowhead from the right pocket, pinned their name tag to it, put on red shoulder loops and called it a day. We had the option of wearing either the staff shirt or the Scout uniform shirt, whichever we wanted (or whichever was clean, lol).

 

When I showed up with my red and white shoulder loops I was harassed about them until I stopped wearing the uniform shirt. (I refused to wear the red shoulder loops.) The big shots on the staff wore gold loops. Some of us thought we should all be able to wear the gold since we were employees of the "National Council" as they called it. So we were told shoulder loops should match your badge of office, if any. Red was the default color if there was nothing on your uniform to indicate branch of Scouting. Someone came up with a badge of office that just said "Employee." We speculated that we could all put them on our uniforms and wear the gold loops. No one tested that theory though to my knowledge. There also was/is a "Ranger" badge of office. It's for the person who takes care of your council camp. But those of us who were Philmont Rangers thougth it would be appropriate. Again no one actually had any to see if it would fly. When I came back for a second year on staff, all my uniforms said District Committee, so I wore silver loops.

[EDIT: There was a summer staff of about 700 people plus a much smaller full-time staff. It may have been the full-timers who got the gold loops.]

 

Here are my Ranger Training Crew pics. In the '88 pic, you can see my striped shoulder loops. In the '90 pic I'm wearing the staff shirt.

 

Philmont Ranger 1988 & 1990

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Edited by mgood777, 05 April 2015 - 07:57 AM.

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#162 scoutldr

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 11:19 AM

So, at what point were striped shoulded loops part of the official BSA uniform? 


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#163 NJCubScouter

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 11:25 AM

So, at what point were striped shoulded loops part of the official BSA uniform? 

 

They never were - which I think is why mgood777 referred to them as "illegal."


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#164 SeattlePioneer

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 01:11 PM

<<I have read that insignia intended for youth are not worn by adult members of the Boy Scouts of America, and I can agree with it for the most part with one exception...I would like to see those who earn the Eagle rank be allowed to wear the rank patch until they reach age 21.>>

 

 

 

19,  21.  Whatever.  Eagle Badge,  Life, First Class.

 

Let boys and young men take a measure of pride in their accomplishments.

 

 

At 21 perhaps I'd have a special ceremony to retire the Eagle Badge and replace it with the Eagle Knot,  Arrow of Light knot and any other knots a young man has earned by that time.


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#165 mgood777

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 02:38 PM

 

So, at what point were striped shoulded loops part of the official BSA uniform? 

 

They never were - which I think is why mgood777 referred to them as "illegal."

 

Right, they never were.

 

Back when the uniforms with epaulets first came out, one troop in my district started wearing baby blue shoulder loops and my troop started wearing the red and white striped loops. I never owned a set of red loops until I went to Wood Badge (8 or 10 years later). The Scoutmasters of these two troops were known as rebels who ran their programs their way. They got lots of threats from council to fall into line, but they generally ignored them. They ran some of the most successful troops in the council so it wasn't like they were going to pull their charter over stuff like this.

 

When I showed up at Philmont with my red and white shoulder loops, I was told they were a no-no. I just stopped wearing the uniform shirt. I was NOT going to wear red shoulder loops with my troop number. Matter of pride. So I wore the staff shirt instead. Then a crew showed up from the other troop, with the baby blue loops. They were our closest friends/rivals. I broke out my uniform with the red and white loops while those guys were in base camp. This came to the attention of some of the Philmont higher ups, and I got a stern lecture about uniform. I went back to the staff shirt. Still not willing to wear red loops, especially while that other troop was around.

 

When I went back for a second year on staff, my badge of office said District Committee and I wore silver loops. I think I was on the District Committee when I was there the first time, but didn't have any uniforms that said that. My second year I took only District Committee uniforms, to avoid the red loops.


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#166 pargolf44067

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 02:47 PM

That's kind of funny.  My oldest son still refuses to change his red loops to the new green ones.  They changed when he was a junior in HS I think and he wanted to know why they changed them, so even though everyone in the troop got the green ones, he still wore the red ones.


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#167 Stosh

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 03:56 PM

The boys of my troop have chosen to wear the old red loops.  Can't buy them, but my ASM found ribbon to match the official ones and makes them for the boys as needed.  If someone has a beef about it, they can talk to my SPL.  By the way, the neckers are a problem, too.  They don't have a troop necker, they have patrol neckers.  The boys of the one patrol wear blaze orange square neckers with black trim and the adults wear blaze orange with silver trim.  When we get enough boys for another patrol, there will be yet another color trim to the blaze orange necker.  From 10' away they look the same, but they aren't.


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#168 jr56

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Posted 15 April 2015 - 10:59 AM

I love the concept of patrol neckerchiefs,  awesome idea.


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#169 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 15 April 2015 - 11:17 AM

I said it then, and I'll say it again. Switching the loops from red to green as well as the unit numbers was the most idiotic thing. And to make it worse, saying Cub Scout Leaders and Webelos wearing weaing the tan and green still need to wear red numbers is pure stupidity.

 

At least the powers that be decided that anyone can wear the tan and green or tan and red trained strip. Although I love how the G2AI has that as the last sentance of the sentance regarding trained strips.

 

FYI, According to the info on the Centennial Uniforms that came out, all uniform items of the ODLs are compatible with the CUs. So red loops and numbers with the CUs is acceptable.

 

As for me, Only CU shirt I got is my CS leader one. So I still have red loops.


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#170 Sentinel947

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Posted 15 April 2015 - 11:38 AM

I never wore my Eagle Patch. As for the shoulder loops... I wore red until I outgrew my ODL. Then when I got a centinnial Uniform I gave my ODL to the Troop for a troop uniform closet and left the Troop numbers on it. So I switched to Green. It's not a big deal IMO. 


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#171 Stosh

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Posted 15 April 2015 - 07:12 PM

Since the 1970's (Vietnam Era) BSA has been trying desperately to dump the military image.  Yet when the military came out with the muted insignia, well, the green/tan numerals and green loops appeared on the scene.  Go figure.  Even an idiot can figure that out.  But the best reaction to the change came from one of the people in the scout shop.  I went in to buy red loops and they said they don't sell them anymore.  They have the red numerals for Cub Scouts, but only the blue loops.  

 

In my inquisitive nature, and playing dumb, I asked why this came about and the lady behind the counter told me that the red and white scared the animals and by toning down the colors it made it more conducive to nature.  I think that is the only time in my life I was able to hold a straight face and yet keep from peeing my pants with laughter.


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#172 scoutldr

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 11:25 AM

I did take a Leave No Trace course once put on by a traveling team from Subaru. They claimed that LNT also meant no loud colors, so all of our clothing, tents, and equipment should be in muted earth tones. I did raise an eyebrow at that.


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#173 TAHAWK

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 12:39 PM

Darth West aside, BSA has traditionally been troubled about a military image.  To that end, even West dumped shooting MB's early on (Which upset Board member General Leonard Wood and the NRA.).  BSA took a public position against using Scouting for military training.

 

Wars came along, and BSA got more on board with things military, at least for the duration(s).

 

2008

The story we got from council about the change to subdued patches, which the military has worn in combat theaters since WW I, was that BSA asked the boys (Imagine !) and found they wanted less of a circus look.


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#174 Stosh

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 02:11 PM

BSA hasn't always been avoiding military issues.

 

The Tom Slade series inroduces a forgotten gem of American fiction, the Bridgboro Boy Scout novels by Percy Keese Fitzhugh. Introduced in 1915 when the Boy Scout movement was new, the books glow with the freshness of the movement and the optimism of an age when everything seemed possible. In addition to Tom Slade, the series and introduces a number of beloved characters, including Pee-wee Harris, Roy Blakeley, and Westy Martin, each of whom later goes on to have his own series of books.

Keese's main characters are based on real people, giving the books an authenticity unusual in juvenile fiction (or any fiction). The self-reliant boys are reminiscent of the heroes in Robert A. Heinlein's early fiction (not surprising because both authors' work was serialized in "Boys Life").  

 

  1. Tom Slade, Boy Scout, 1915.
  2. Tom Slade at Temple Camp, 1917
  3. Tom Slade on the River, 1917.
  4. Tom Slade with the Colors, 1918.
  5. Tom Slade on a Transport, 1918.
  6. Tom Slade with the Boys over There, 1918.
  7. Tom Slade, Motorcycle Dispatch Bearer, 1918.
  8. Tom Slade with the Flying Corps, 1919.
  9. Tom Slade at Black Lake, 1921.
  10. Tom Slade on Mystery Trail, 1921.
  11. Tom Slade's Double Dare, 1922.
  12. Tom Slade on Overlook Mountain, 1923.
  13. Tom Slade Picks a Winner, 1924.
  14. Tom Slade at Bear Mountain, 1925.
  15. Tom Slade, Forest Ranger, 1926.
  16. Tom Slade in the North Woods, 1927.
  17. Tom Slade at Shadow Isle, 1928.
  18. Tom Slade in the Haunted Cavern, 1929.
  19. The Parachute Jumper, 1930.   

This is one of several series commissioned by the Boy Scouts of America.


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Stosh

 

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#175 TAHAWK

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 02:23 PM

Certainly not always. Note the dates for 4-8.  We were in the war.  


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#176 Rick_in_CA

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 03:52 PM

I did take a Leave No Trace course once put on by a traveling team from Subaru. They claimed that LNT also meant no loud colors, so all of our clothing, tents, and equipment should be in muted earth tones. I did raise an eyebrow at that.

I have heard that too. I disagree with it. When backpacking in the back country, I think tents and such should be brightly colored so they can be seen from the air and not mistaken for something natural. It just might save your life.


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#177 Stosh

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 06:51 PM

I have adhered to the LNT which goes beyond just cleaning up after yourself and not making a permanent impact on things.  Loud colors, loud noises, unsavory smells, etc. all go along with the LNT principle.  No one wants to go out into the wilderness to enjoy the simplicity of nature and have Ringling Brother Barnam and Bailey show up next door.  If one is worried about the right yellow tent being able to be seen in an emergency, a yellow survival blanket or poncho works just as well.  As a matter of fact, smoke and fire do a pretty good job too.  There are other alternatives besides a perpetual circus atmosphere when there  isn't an emergency.


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Stosh

 

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#178 SSScout

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 09:48 AM

I like a bright colored raincoat in the dark drab weather.  Helps folks see you in the weather. Brightens the day.  Bright colored tent?  Helps one find the campsite thru the woods.  

I slways pick out the bright color if I can in buying coats/ponchos.   The black, Goth look is not for me.....

 

Once while driving my bus on a wintry day (it had dropped 12" of snow the day before) , a passenger boarded wearing all white. Boots, coat, chaps, hood, all white.  White bag, white covered camera and tripod. He was on his way to photo in the nearby park.  That is one way to dress with a purpose.   If our purpose is to NOT dress like the military, then we need to stand out, not blend in.

When I am asked about the military bent of Scouting, I like to hold out my hands and say "do I look like an officer?"   I would still like to do that.


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#179 TAHAWK

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 01:13 PM

You never heard of the Orange Goths?


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#180 RememberSchiff

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 11:15 PM

Never understood the colors and sounds argument from LNT, but to each their own.

 

I wear blaze (safety) orange and blue year round due to hunters. No white! I like higher visibility tents for safety reasons as well, particulalry in bad weather. I don't bring a boom box but I have clanged a bell along in bear territory.

 

Not like back in the day when scouts practiced "stalking" for a SC requirement and wore a green uniform during hunting season. :o


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