Jump to content



Photo
* * * * * 1 votes

Eagle Scout Rank Patch wear after age 18


  • Please log in to reply
257 replies to this topic

#241 TAHAWK

TAHAWK

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2858 posts

Posted 17 June 2017 - 03:21 PM

Yes.  People invent their own Scouting all the time.  One SM told me "it's all optional" when I asked why i was that the PLs didn't know what patrol they were in.  To each his or her own.


  • 0

#242 Back Pack

Back Pack

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 538 posts

Posted 18 June 2017 - 06:31 AM

I am an Eagle. Three palms. Got all of them two days before my 18th. I am 21 now. I am also a Brotherood member of OA.

I wear my medal or pin at ECOHs as allowed.

I DO NOT wear my patch at all. Why? BECAUSE IT IS NOT ALLOWED, and as an Eagle Scout I follow the rules and set the example for others by following rules...even rules I don't like. Why? BECAUSE THATS WHAT EAGLES DO!!!

I don't create rules or violate them because I don't like them. @The Black Eagle, you ask if others are Eagles, as if not being one somehow negates their position on this subject. So I will ask you, what type of Eagle are you who picks and chooses which rules he will follow and what message does that send to others? What other rules don't you like that you'll just choose to ignore?

This is the mind set that's wrong with our country now. Our generation pick which rules they will follow. As Eagles we must uphold ALL the rules...especially the ones we don't like. That's what makes us Eagles.

Edited by Back Pack, 18 June 2017 - 06:33 AM.

  • 0

#243 TAHAWK

TAHAWK

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2858 posts

Posted 18 June 2017 - 08:14 AM

I think I made my opinion on the issue of wearing the boy's Eagle patch clear.

 

Having said that, "Obedient" needs work. The Victorian language no longer stands the test of history, if it ever did.  In Scouting we hold up Dr. Martin Luther King as an example of living a values-centered life, yet he won the Nobel Prize for Peace for leading a campaign of civil disobedience against odious racial laws.  Germany had such laws, if more extreme, in the 1930s and until the end of WW II.  Dietrich Bonhoeffer was executed by the German government for participating in a conspiracy to overthrow the government and is regarded as a martyr for the Christian faith.  Until their conduct was upheld by the courts, followers of certain religions were penalized in the U.S.A. for refusing to swear allegiance to the United States, an act their faith teaches is contrary to the word of God.   I give the benefit of the doubt in all cases to the rules - probably because of how I was brought up, including Scouting.  But I conclude that not all obedience is ethical. There are standards higher than those set by politicians, many set out in other points of the Law.

 

The issue here does not seem to merit the hostility one way or the other.   Wear a boy's rank patch or not.  I won't call you names as other points of the Law are implicated.  I will do my best to work with you to bring Scouting to youth.  

 

But I wish you would set a different example.  This is not evil you are resisting.  It's just a rule about uniforms.


  • 0

#244 Sentinel947

Sentinel947

    Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 1584 posts

Posted 18 June 2017 - 09:39 AM

I earned my Eagle at 17 years 11 months. I'm now 23. I never wore my Eagle rank patch. Its not part of the uniform rules, but moreso, I try not to overshadow the other adults who were not Scouts as youth.

I wear the Eagle knot. I wear our troop neckerchief instead of the Eagle necker. I wear my Eagle medal and necker at Eagle Courts of honor only.

There is no uniform police. You can wear the Rank badge if you choose. But consider when your Scouts are not wearing the "proper" uniform, neither are you.
  • 0

#245 The Latin Scot

The Latin Scot

    part Latino, part Scottish ... get it?

  • Members
  • 271 posts

Posted 18 June 2017 - 10:20 AM

I agree with you 100% @Back Pack, although in @The Black Eagle's defense, he did make it somewhat clear that he DOES obey the policy, although he vehemently opposes it. His point wasn't as much about picking and choosing rules as it was frustration with the rules as they are, and perhaps a willingness to look the other way when the rule is in fact violated. I believe that was his point anyway; he may correct me as he will.

 

I do not believe, however, that the concept of obedience needs "work" - I think that, if anything, it needs emphasis. Civil disobedience is one thing in times of legitimate oppression or tyranny, but we cannot allow ourselves to create a culture where a few remarkable examples set a norm for disobedience in general. I resent the fact that nowadays, obedience is spoken of with patronizing tones, as though it's something only weak or ignorant masses do, like blind sheep. But obedience to truth, to good laws and good men, is an essential virtue, one that requires courage and perseverance and integrity. I think there is inspired purpose behind its inclusion in the Scout Law, and it would be wise of us to remember why it matters.

 

I do agree with @TAHAWK's point as well - we are using examples far to extreme to treat the subject at hand. We are talking about the BSA policy of youth wearing youth badges and adults wearing adult badges, specifically those indicating the Eagle rank. Really, nothing that demands moral high-handedness or proclamations of goodness and evil.  ;)


  • 2

There is no such word as "Webelo." 

The only proper singular of Webelos Scouts is ... WEBELOS SCOUT!  


#246 Back Pack

Back Pack

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 538 posts

Posted 18 June 2017 - 09:00 PM

Sorry, but you either follow rules or you don't. You can't pick to follow only the ones you like. That's not high handedness, that's obidience.
  • 0

#247 qwazse

qwazse

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 6612 posts

Posted 19 June 2017 - 04:44 AM

Sorry, but you either follow rules or you don't. You can't pick to follow only the ones you like. That's not high handedness, that's obidience.

Sure you can.

I tell my young adults that their Eagle patch is a violation of the insignia guide, but if they are okay with taking a hit on inspection (which we rarely do) they can keep it on.

On the other hand, if they share their cigarettes with youth, they can expect summary dismissal.
  • 0

#248 Col. Flagg

Col. Flagg

    Robert E. Lee - Patriot

  • Members
  • 1348 posts

Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:03 AM

Sure you can.

I tell my young adults that their Eagle patch is a violation of the insignia guide, but if they are okay with taking a hit on inspection (which we rarely do) they can keep it on.

On the other hand, if they share their cigarettes with youth, they can expect summary dismissal.

 

I don't think it is right to base one's decisions to follow rules, policy or regulations based on the disciplinary action they receive if they violate said rule. Either someone complies with rules or they don't. The consequence does not matter. That's only how people who don't like certain rules or policies justify their behaviour. "Oh, it's a silly rule and I'll only get yelled at."

 

What's worse is when younger people see their elders disregarding rules, they too begin to disregard rules. But then they start to disregard rules that their elders would never think of disregarding. Eventually, rules once held dear are not observed at all. Not because they were not good rules, but rather through nothing more than the continued eroding away of things in the name of "I don't agree with...".

 

Don't like the rule? Work to change it, but comply with it...especially if you are a member of the organization.


Edited by Col. Flagg, 19 June 2017 - 07:04 AM.

  • 0

#249 SSScout

SSScout

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4008 posts

Posted 19 June 2017 - 08:49 AM

It's hard ain't it hard....

 

I teach IOLS, my usual topic is "Woods Tools".  Knife and axe and saw.    My home District has some reputation for doing a good job on IOLS, I like to think I have something to do with that.  I teach the Scouters HOW to teach and pass on the Whitlin' Chip (knife... what a neat way to recruit Cubs than with a Big Brother Boy Scout teaching safe knife handling? ), then into Totin' Chip (axes and saws, oh my). 

I was asked to help in a neighboring Districts IOLS, and of course I said yes.  Brought all my gear and "toys", set up my Axe Yard, and the Course Leader came up and said, "Here are the Totin Chip Patches for you to award your students when you're done"  and handed me a baggie of TC patches !  I said, I can't award these, she said of course you can, they will earn them here right? I said noooo,  they are ADULTS, they can't earn a youth award, she said but we always give them out and they are sooo proud to wear them, I said Not from me.   I said these adults will learn what is necessary for a Scout to earn it. In passing, if they follow my lead,  if I do a good job of instructing,  they may indeed do the things to earn it,  but no, they will NOT be asked to wear a Youth Award .    She was flummoxed, to say the least.  I think for the first time, that District did not pass out youth awards to Adult Scouters.  

 

Eagle medal?   Wear it on your civvie suit coat. .   Scouter uniform?   Wear the knot.  Keep the Eagle Medal in your dresser drawer until you can pin yours on your grandson's  uni.  


  • 1

#250 gumbymaster

gumbymaster

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 304 posts

Posted 19 June 2017 - 09:51 AM

Concerned by the way I expressed my distate for the silly rules? WHATTTTTT???? Dismiss it entirely????? WHATTTTT????? Disregard the rule???? WHATTTT???? You need to look up those words in the dictionary! First, there is zero disregarding! That would suggest that I am ignoring the rule and wearing my Eagle Scout patch and I am 45 years old and not active in a troop etc. So there is zero disregarding of rules! Second, advocate for a policy change is NOT up to me, nor do I care to involve myself in such matters. Dismiss? Again, look up the word in the dictionary! To dismiss the rule would mean that I am ignoring policy and are committing the terrible act of wearing an Eagle Rank patch past 18 years of age! I would never think about committing such a terrible crime, which is up there with treason and breaking speed limit rules! Finally, silly rules? It is not silly rules, it is a rule I disagree with and that's my opinion and I stated it! The problem with snow flakes is that when anyone disagrees with them, they act like the other person is dismissing and disregarding and doing hate speech! In closing, the Boy Scouts have rules such as no adults wearing rank badges and yet let homosexuals in the BSA! So much for "Morally straight!"

 

Clearly, you don't know me, and I don't know you.  That is one of the greatest limitations with communicating over a method like this forum vs. had we been able to meet in person.  In fact, this is one of the general issues with communication in the modern era, is the lack to nuance a response or to adapt the vehemence of the response to the body language of the intended recipient.

 

If I read your message correctly, and after my read of the last one I grant that I may not be, but you may be the first person to ever imply that I was a snowflake, or that I was dismissing your argument because it was contrary to my own.  Come visit over and I&P and you will find that I have quite a few disagreements on the 'how' with other scouters, but I do not think that I would normally have been accused of outright dismissing the other's points simply because they are a contrary view.

 

In my defense, the term "silly rules" was yours.  I did not adequately address that you expressing that you wanted the rules to be different verses you were (or advocating for) breaking the rules, I grant that my response did not communicate that well.  I also should have better fully interpreted that balance as you described it in your post.  For this lack of adequate communication on my part, I apologize.

 

That said, my concern was truly with the way your position was expressed.  I am all for your advocating for a change in the policy and I would personally take no position in favor or against it should I be asked.  I can understand, I lived, on both sides of the issue.  But clearly, this forum is good for feedback, but we are a very narrow selection of the Scouting community.  We tend to always have those that are passionate about a position (regardless of the subject) and are often on opposing sides of the issue.  Those in the middle of most issues, but the ones that in numbers are most effected, don't tend to gravitate to places like here.

 

If you think the policy should change, if you have not already does so, start advocating the process.  Start talking to the key three of your Council to convince them, because only they are in a decent position to really bring the issue up to the national level.

 

Finally, please leave the throwbacks to membership decisions of the BSA off this thread of the forum, lest the entire conversation find itself in I&P.  It had nothing to do with either your original post or my original response.

 

I left this response public, because you deserved a public apology for my reading more into your comments that I probably should have when I made my public post.  Anything more on this is probably best addressed in PMs which you are welcome to send.


  • 0

#251 The Latin Scot

The Latin Scot

    part Latino, part Scottish ... get it?

  • Members
  • 271 posts

Posted 19 June 2017 - 12:09 PM

Sorry, but you either follow rules or you don't. You can't pick to follow only the ones you like. That's not high handedness, that's obidience.

I am afraid you misread my last post. If you read it carefully this time, you'll see that I was agreeing with you - that obedience is essential, and that in most cases it is indeed wrong to be selective in what one chooses to obey. I also emphasized that @The Black Eagle was not picking & choosing either - he did make it clear that he still follows the policy, just that he disagrees with it. And that is also okay; there is no real fault in simply disagreeing with a policy or law. The high-handedness I referred to had nothing to do with whether obedience is right or wrong - it is indeed right. 

 

However: the way you explain these things can come off as high-handed if you aren't careful in how you word things, especially on an online forum (as @gumbymaster rightly notes). Even if my principles and my position are correct, I still have to be sensitive and diplomatic about how I express them, or else it can easily come off as self-righteous or overbearing, which ends up defeating the very aims I seek to achieve.


Edited by The Latin Scot, 19 June 2017 - 12:09 PM.

  • 1

There is no such word as "Webelo." 

The only proper singular of Webelos Scouts is ... WEBELOS SCOUT!  


#252 <3My2Eagles

<3My2Eagles

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 8 posts

Posted 25 June 2017 - 06:18 AM

<3My2Eagles Wow!  Polite, appreciative thankful for forum input?  Is it any wonder he has two great Eagle Scouts for sons.  Well done dad, you must be extremely proud to have raised your sons so well.  I have no doubt the two boys fully appreciate the support and guidance you have provided for their journey in life.

Thank you for the very kind comments @Stosh ! ....I'm actually the Proud Mom (LoL) but Dad is Super Proud too!  They are Wonderful young men!  :D


Edited by RememberSchiff, 25 June 2017 - 07:06 AM.
added @

  • 0

#253 <3My2Eagles

<3My2Eagles

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 8 posts

Posted 25 June 2017 - 06:29 AM

Regarding knots, we tell our boys to pick them up after the ceremony on their own time (and
their own dimes)!
The scout shop usually asks for proof of earning the award. The NESA card will do.
While they're at it, be sure they get the AoL knot (if they earned it) and maybe some service stars.

Ok. Thank you @qwazse for info. I should be receiving the boys NESA registration soon.

I probably should know this...but, What is AoL knot? :/


Edited by RememberSchiff, 25 June 2017 - 07:05 AM.
added @

  • 0

#254 <3My2Eagles

<3My2Eagles

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 8 posts

Posted 25 June 2017 - 06:36 AM

We give the new Eagle(s) a square knot from the Troop at their ECOH, with an explanation that this is for when they turn 18 (if they haven't already), and that they wear the square knot all the time and not the medal. We also advise them to get AoL and religious award knots on their own if they earned them and they so choose to wear the knots.

 

The Troop also gives them a special Eagle Scout CSP that our council makes and sells.

 

We provide, at their ECOH, the Eagle Kit, the CSP, and square knot. The council gives them (well, their parents) a "I'm Proud of My Eagle Scout" bumper sticker. If the Scout wishes to award more Mentor pins than the one that's provided in their Eagle Kit, that's on their dime.  Same goes for the new Eagle Scout Grandparent pins.

Thanks @Cleveland Rocks ! ... I better check with my Troop(s) before purchasing the Eagle knot at Council store then.  Sorry, but what is this CSP you give them? and are the extra mentor and grandparent pins sold at council stores?  thx


Edited by RememberSchiff, 25 June 2017 - 07:04 AM.
added @

  • 0

#255 TAHAWK

TAHAWK

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2858 posts

Posted 25 June 2017 - 08:58 AM

Council Shoulder Patch - usually.


  • 0

#256 Cleveland Rocks

Cleveland Rocks

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 60 posts

Posted 25 June 2017 - 12:08 PM

Thanks @Cleveland Rocks ! ... I better check with my Troop(s) before purchasing the Eagle knot at Council store then.  Sorry, but what is this CSP you give them? and are the extra mentor and grandparent pins sold at council stores?  thx

Our council sells many different Council Shoulder Patches beyond the "standard issue" one.  One of those is one that has the council name and "Eagle Scout" on it. We purchase and give one to each Eagle at their ECOH.

 

We (the troop) is able to purchase the square knot at the time of purchasing the Eagle Kit because it all goes together, and they know it's for that Eagle. Otherwise, you'd have to present Eagle credentials in order to purchase the knot.  I had to bring in my NESA Life Member certificate when I purchased the NESA Life Member Eagle knot for my uniform.

 

The extra mentor and new Grandparent pins are available at Scout Stores and online at scoutstuff.org.


  • 0

#257 Stosh

Stosh

    BSA Heretic

  • Members
  • 12183 posts

Posted 25 June 2017 - 06:20 PM

Thank you for the very kind comments @Stosh ! ....I'm actually the Proud Mom (LoL) but Dad is Super Proud too!  They are Wonderful young men!  :D

 

<3My2Eagles  Sorry for the gender confusion, seems to be some of that floating around this forum lately.  I may have assumed the wrong gender, but I know for a fact that moms are just as proud as dads when it comes to having done such a good job of raising great kids.  Well done!  Congrats!


  • 1

Stosh

 

There's a reason why I don't always answer the phone, doorbell or comments on forums.  :)


#258 qwazse

qwazse

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 6612 posts

Posted 25 June 2017 - 06:29 PM

Ok. Thank you @qwazse for info. I should be receiving the boys NESA registration soon.
I probably should know this...but, What is AoL knot? :/

Arrow of Light ... In case your boys were in Cub Scouts and earned it.

Edited by qwazse, 25 June 2017 - 06:54 PM.

  • 0




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users


IPB Skin By Virteq