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Eagle Scout Rank Patch wear after age 18


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#221 SSScout

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 05:15 PM

Ditto what Col. Flagg said.  I would add:  

You mentioned TWO different Troops.  Make sure to include the Scoutmasters in the ceremonies.  Ask around to other parents (make a call to the District Eagle Coordinator) about  possible scenarios.  Who makes the speeches?  Who leads?  Who MC's?  Eagle Charge? What version (there are several).    I personally do not see a problem with wearing the uniform (if they can still fit into it !)  for the ceremony and evening festivities and photos. 

 

Congratulations to your Scouts.   When they are ready, they will "come back" to Scouting.  Give them a nice send off into adulthood.  

 

See you on the trail...


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#222 <3My2Eagles

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 11:00 PM

Welcome to scoutercom and congratulations to your sons.

Thank You very much.  I love seeing how Proud they are of their Project and accomplishments :) ! 


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#223 <3My2Eagles

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 11:04 PM

Welcome!
Enjoy the fun time with the ceremony.
Bottom line: it's the boys' court of honor. Thus, it's theirs to plan down to when the patches go on and off.
Our opinions on the matter just don't matter all that much.
I'm looking at Son #1's portrait right now (age 18 at the time), and the eagle medal is pinned on his his pocket, which still has a life patch sewn on it. He's wearing the red, white, and, blue necker with the least expensive slide.
I don't know where Son #2's portrait is (third child syndrome), but they pretty much look like twins 6 years apart.

I am very much looking forward to it!  Thank you for your opinions on this matter!  and...CoNgRaTs on your Eagles!  :)


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#224 <3My2Eagles

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 11:27 PM

 

  • Wearing Eagle Patch: BSA guidelines say that Eagles in Boy Scouts cannot wear the patch after they turn 18. Eagles in Venturing CAN wear the patch until they are 21. After 18 in Boy Scouts and 21 in Venturing, Eagles wear the Eagle knot. That said, there's nothing wrong with sewing the patch on and taking an Eagle portrait after the ceremony.
     
  • Eagle COH Portraits: Since you are usually a Life Scout when you attend your Eagle COH (though you are technically an Eagle after national approves your application) one would not expect him to be wearing his Eagle rank for a portrait. Although there may be circumstances where Eagle is given prior to the COH. Most Scouts are wearing their Life rank at their Eagle COH. There's no BSA Uniform Police that are going to jail you for sewing on the Eagle patch, taking a pic and then sewing back on his Life patch. I must say it would be VERY odd for someone who is 21 to be wearing the Boy Scout uniform with an Eagle already on it.
     
  • Eagle Neckerchiefs: The blue necker is what Eagles Scouts are awarded. This can be worn at any time by an Eagle Scout, even as an adult, though they would not wear the Eagle patch, but rather the Eagle knot. The white necker is what NESA members can wear at any time. Both youth and adult members can wear the NESA necker.

Here's some info on wearing the Eagle medal. Here's another on when exactly you become an Eagle Scout.

 

This should help answer your questions.

 

Thank you Col. Flagg for all of the information and opinions.  Very Helpful! ... One more question:  Where and When do the boys get the Eagle Knot? at Ceremony or just from the Troop.? Thx!!


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#225 <3My2Eagles

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 11:38 PM

Ditto what Col. Flagg said.  I would add:  

You mentioned TWO different Troops.  Make sure to include the Scoutmasters in the ceremonies.  Ask around to other parents (make a call to the District Eagle Coordinator) about  possible scenarios.  Who makes the speeches?  Who leads?  Who MC's?  Eagle Charge? What version (there are several).    I personally do not see a problem with wearing the uniform (if they can still fit into it !)  for the ceremony and evening festivities and photos. 

 

Congratulations to your Scouts.   When they are ready, they will "come back" to Scouting.  Give them a nice send off into adulthood.  

 

See you on the trail...

Thank you for your input!  Yes, we are going to have both Scout Masters involved with different parts of the Ceremony. (We know it will be a little more challenging with incorporating the 2 troops but we feel it will be fine!) ... I am HaPPy to say that my son(#2) has done all of his clearances to stay involved as an adult Asst. Scout Master :) ... Thank you for your opinions and time!!  :)


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#226 Stosh

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Posted 10 June 2017 - 05:08 AM

<3My2Eagles Wow!  Polite, appreciative thankful for forum input?  Is it any wonder he has two great Eagle Scouts for sons.  Well done dad, you must be extremely proud to have raised your sons so well.  I have no doubt the two boys fully appreciate the support and guidance you have provided for their journey in life.


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#227 qwazse

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Posted 10 June 2017 - 06:09 AM

Regarding knots, we tell our boys to pick them up after the ceremony on their own time (and
their own dimes)!
The scout shop usually asks for proof of earning the award. The NESA card will do.
While they're at it, be sure they get the AoL knot (if they earned it) and maybe some service stars.
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#228 Cleveland Rocks

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 07:08 PM

Thank you Col. Flagg for all of the information and opinions.  Very Helpful! ... One more question:  Where and When do the boys get the Eagle Knot? at Ceremony or just from the Troop.? Thx!!

We give the new Eagle(s) a square knot from the Troop at their ECOH, with an explanation that this is for when they turn 18 (if they haven't already), and that they wear the square knot all the time and not the medal. We also advise them to get AoL and religious award knots on their own if they earned them and they so choose to wear the knots.

 

The Troop also gives them a special Eagle Scout CSP that our council makes and sells.

 

We provide, at their ECOH, the Eagle Kit, the CSP, and square knot. The council gives them (well, their parents) a "I'm Proud of My Eagle Scout" bumper sticker. If the Scout wishes to award more Mentor pins than the one that's provided in their Eagle Kit, that's on their dime.  Same goes for the new Eagle Scout Grandparent pins.


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#229 The Black Eagle

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 01:40 AM

After reading many of the posts about wearing Eagle Cloth rank, I feel inclined to throw my two cents into the pot. I reached the rank of Eagle back in 1990, just before my 18th birthday. Like many eagle scouts who achieved the rank of Eagle, most achieve it closer to 18. The average is 17. So many Eagles don't get to wear their patch rank at all or not very long. It is a RANK!I feel that if one is still in scouting and wearing the uniform, they ought to be able to display their highest rank achieved.

 

I find it silly that people were suggesting and comparing this desire to breaking a speed law! That is a poor analogy because the person breaking a speeding law is committing an actual crime and wanting to wear a rank that one actually achieved is completely different! Could you imagine a retired general being told that he cannot wear his 4 stars because he no longer is in active service or because he is an adult? Following rules is fine when they are actually sound rules.

 

Questioning silly rules is not a crime because that is how you get silly rules changed! Keep in mind there are rules STILL ON THE BOOKS in towns of America that say things like: "Citizens are forbidden to wear hats on Thursdays from 8am to 7pm!" So you mean to tell me that I am some criminal if I choose to question that law or dare i say, disobey it! It was a valid point of the gentleman who stated that he finds it funny that one is allowed to wear all sorts of approved do-dads on the uniform but one is not allowed to wear his RANK just because they turned 18! And no offense but many of these rules were added later! It use to be that adults could earn Eagle and through the years the BSA changes and adds things. However, think of some 50, 60, 70, 80, 90 year old Eagle Scouts that are still alive and active and being told they can't wear cloth ranks when they were allowed to when they were younger! They never agreed to these changes and why should they have to change for some rule put into place after! In addition, who is to say that the BSA will not decide 10 years from now that Adult Eagle Scouts are forbidden to wear their medals! Would the uniform police be okay with that rule? I for one would NOT be okay with that! And where do you draw the line! The BSA has now allowed gay scout masters and gay scouts and transgenders and I am completely AGAINST all that! Remember the MORALLY STRAIGHT! So before the uniform police want to act like the rest of us should just comply with all their rule changes, doesn't mean we should be so willing to do so!


Edited by RememberSchiff, 15 June 2017 - 03:33 AM.
added paragraphs for readability

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#230 RememberSchiff

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 03:36 AM

Welcome to scouter.com @The Black Eagle


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#231 Col. Flagg

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 09:01 AM

After reading many of the posts about wearing Eagle Cloth rank, I feel inclined to throw my two cents into the pot. I reached the rank of Eagle back in 1990, just before my 18th birthday. Like many eagle scouts who achieved the rank of Eagle, most achieve it closer to 18. The average is 17. So many Eagles don't get to wear their patch rank at all or not very long. It is a RANK!I feel that if one is still in scouting and wearing the uniform, they ought to be able to display their highest rank achieved.

 

Ranks are for youth, not adults. So once you are an adult you don't wear ranks...just like you don't wear MB sashes. As an adult you are essentially a "retired" Scout and are now a Scouter (unless you are in Venturing, then you can wear your Eagle until 21).

 

To carry your analogy further, retired generals don't wear their stars, or even their uniform, after they retire. When you turned 18 you "retired" from Scouts so you wear the knot, not the rank.


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#232 Gwaihir

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 11:34 AM

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I too earned my Eagle at the zero hour before my 18th birthday.   This was due to procrastination and laziness.  I earned Life by the age of 16 and then dragged my feat on my project and 2 merit badges.  I never got to wear my Eagle patch, it's still stapled into my black case.  I have gotten to wear my Eagle medal, which is the actual award you are earning, it's the award as it was first designed.  I've worn it on formal attire (re: suit and tie), I've worn it on my uniform as an adult scouter at formal occasions.  If you didn't get to wear your patch, it's most likely due to your own procrastination as 7 years is ample time to earn the rank.  That all said, it's the knowledge, wisdom and skills you've garnered on your journey to eagle that matter, not the cloth badge or the shiny medal.  imo, the cloth patch is for the boys, we are men now.  


Edited by Gwaihir, 15 June 2017 - 11:36 AM.

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#233 gumbymaster

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 09:59 AM

Other than some self-appointed individuals, there are no "uniform police" in Scouting.

 

I will admit that I kept my eagle badge on some of my my uniforms until I was no longer serving a Summer Camp Staff, at about 23.  While I am sure my attitude was I earned it, I should be able to display it, I also justified it as helping to inspire the Scouts I was teaching at Camp.  At the same time, I was in a co-ed explorer post, and on that uniform I never put on the eagle badge and instead went to the knot when I was 18, because I did not consider it fair to be so in their face to the women in the unit who were at least as skilled as I was, but could not earn the eagle.

 

When I came back to a leadership role as a Scouter/Parent, I removed the badges that were still on some old uniforms and replaced with with the knots.  One of our other Den leaders still had his eagle badge on his uniform, and even as a cub master, I felt that was his decision to make.  Again, I justified my not joining the uniform police force as that the parents and boys in his den would much more readily identify with the badge than a knot, and it provided a sense of he knows what he is doing.

 

Now, all that said ...

 

@The Black Eagle, I am concerned that the way you have expressed your distaste with the "silly rules" and all.  You are right that it does not rise to the magnitude of a speeding ticket, or anything else with the risk of life or injury to self or others.  But is an award bestowed by the BSA, and it is their right to dictate the proper way to wear it, or not, as the case may be.  Think about the intent of the rule before you dismiss it entirely.  Advocate for a policy change if you think that is appropriate.  To simply disregard the rule because you think it is silly or don't like that it diminishes your ability to tout your achievement goes against much of what that award represents.


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#234 The Black Eagle

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 10:52 PM

Ranks are for youth, not adults. So once you are an adult you don't wear ranks...just like you don't wear MB sashes. As an adult you are essentially a "retired" Scout and are now a Scouter (unless you are in Venturing, then you can wear your Eagle until 21).

 

To carry your analogy further, retired generals don't wear their stars, or even their uniform, after they retire. When you turned 18 you "retired" from Scouts so you wear the knot, not the rank.

That is wrong! Retired generals DO wear their uniforms to ceremonies, etc. I see it all the time! I know what the rules are but many of us Eagle Scouts are talking about what we would LIKE to see changed! Are you an Eagle Scout? I ask because many here with opinions have never even achieved Eagle Scout!


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#235 The Black Eagle

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 11:07 PM

Other than some self-appointed individuals, there are no "uniform police" in Scouting.

 

I will admit that I kept my eagle badge on some of my my uniforms until I was no longer serving a Summer Camp Staff, at about 23.  While I am sure my attitude was I earned it, I should be able to display it, I also justified it as helping to inspire the Scouts I was teaching at Camp.  At the same time, I was in a co-ed explorer post, and on that uniform I never put on the eagle badge and instead went to the knot when I was 18, because I did not consider it fair to be so in their face to the women in the unit who were at least as skilled as I was, but could not earn the eagle.

 

When I came back to a leadership role as a Scouter/Parent, I removed the badges that were still on some old uniforms and replaced with with the knots.  One of our other Den leaders still had his eagle badge on his uniform, and even as a cub master, I felt that was his decision to make.  Again, I justified my not joining the uniform police force as that the parents and boys in his den would much more readily identify with the badge than a knot, and it provided a sense of he knows what he is doing.

 

Now, all that said ...

 

@The Black Eagle, I am concerned that the way you have expressed your distaste with the "silly rules" and all.  You are right that it does not rise to the magnitude of a speeding ticket, or anything else with the risk of life or injury to self or others.  But is an award bestowed by the BSA, and it is their right to dictate the proper way to wear it, or not, as the case may be.  Think about the intent of the rule before you dismiss it entirely.  Advocate for a policy change if you think that is appropriate.  To simply disregard the rule because you think it is silly or don't like that it diminishes your ability to tout your achievement goes against much of what that award represents.

Concerned by the way I expressed my distate for the silly rules? WHATTTTTT???? Dismiss it entirely????? WHATTTTT????? Disregard the rule???? WHATTTT???? You need to look up those words in the dictionary! First, there is zero disregarding! That would suggest that I am ignoring the rule and wearing my Eagle Scout patch and I am 45 years old and not active in a troop etc. So there is zero disregarding of rules! Second, advocate for a policy change is NOT up to me, nor do I care to involve myself in such matters. Dismiss? Again, look up the word in the dictionary! To dismiss the rule would mean that I am ignoring policy and are committing the terrible act of wearing an Eagle Rank patch past 18 years of age! I would never think about committing such a terrible crime, which is up there with treason and breaking speed limit rules! Finally, silly rules? It is not silly rules, it is a rule I disagree with and that's my opinion and I stated it! The problem with snow flakes is that when anyone disagrees with them, they act like the other person is dismissing and disregarding and doing hate speech! In closing, the Boy Scouts have rules such as no adults wearing rank badges and yet let homosexuals in the BSA! So much for "Morally straight!"


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#236 qwazse

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 06:16 AM

Well, to my knowledge, nobody got kicked out of the BSA for keeping their Eagle patch on. They found out about the insignia guide, and adjusted their uniform at their earliest possible convenience.

It makes no sense saying BSA's capitulation to those with permissive sexual ethics is cause to disregard its guide to insignia.

Regarding, snowflakes, I've found them to be deadly en masse. So, the metaphor does not have the pejorative implication you may think that it has.
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#237 TAHAWK

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 09:39 AM

If it's not a big deal, why so much passion?

 

I tend to follow rules.

 

Scouting does not require us to love the rules.

 

Opinions differ.

 

I have an Eagle knot on one shirt.  Scouting in multiple councils, I have not gotten around to sewing knots on my other shirts -- or much beyond CSPs.  If I don't know my stuff, no patch or medal will do.  If I know my stuff, who cares?  

 

One of my cohorts this week staffing training is First Class - and twenty years a US Army Ranger - which he never mentioned. (I knew him eight years before I found out.) Did the participants figure out that he is a good source?  You betcha.  


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#238 The Latin Scot

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 10:11 AM

I note, @The Black Eagle (welcome by the way), that you seem to hold a great deal of resentment towards this issue, and that you seem especially zealous to make your point - lots of capital letters and exclamation points, etc. I am clear on the fact that you are against this policy (which is not as new as you seem to imply). but my question to you is -

 

why?

 

Forgive me if I come off as somewhat didactic, but are we really so concerned with the recognition, the attention, or the prestige of the Eagle rank that we are allowing the desire to be seen as an Eagle Scout trump the need to behave like an Eagle Scout? Why exactly is it so terrible that these 17 year-olds only get to wear the big flashy patch for a short time, and then have to transition to the (Heaven forbid) small, inconspicuous square knot? Does it diminish the labor and effort they put into achieving that rank? Does it deprive them of the character they built in so doing, or lessen somehow the significance of what they have done? Or are we upset because they are being deprived of the attention for having done those things?

 

I tell you now, that is not the road we want any new Eagle to travel. If a man is to be recognized as being an Eagle Scout, he should do it the real way - by being trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent - and, I will add, modest. He is a good citizen, a good father and husband and worker. He helps others because it is the right thing to do, not to be seen of others. One of the most beautiful details about the story of the unknown scout (the veracity of the story being, frankly, irrelevant) is that we have no idea who he was. He never got recognized for his small good turn, helping William D. Boyce find his way through London, but it is because of him that any of us can earn the rank of Eagle in the first place. 

 

I think that if a boy turns 18 and cannot be satisfied with a little square knot to honor his achievement, he still has a lot of growing up to do, regardless of the fact that, legally, he is considered an "adult." If he still needs the attention and recognition which the big colorful youth patch brings (which, all things considered, is hardly more than that of the square knot outside of the Scouting world), then maybe he still needs to learn what it means to truly be an Eagle Scout, despite the fact that he has met the requirements. 

 

Finally, you seem to point out a lot of what you perceive as hypocrisy by bringing in other, unrelated issues and by making overly dramatic comparisons (treason, homosexual issues, etc.), as though somehow they might distract us from your real concern because of how big and controversial they are, and that by comparison your position might seem like a small and reasonable thing. Unfortunately, that kind of rhetoric only makes your position seem more extreme, and your terse and shouting replies aren't likely to help your point much. I understand that you feel strongly about this, and that is your privilege, but let's not try to tear down the whole moral fabric of the organization in our efforts to shed some light on a small issue like this.

 

You think an Eagle Scout should be allowed to wear the youth rank patch even when he is grown, though you haven't fully and gently explained your reasoning. I feel that it's both unnecessary and unwise, and I hope I have been clear as to why. Can't we continue the discussion in cool, collected language, and learn from each other, rather than resort to acerbity or angry rhetoric? By keeping to the subject at hand, we can help to understand each other's points of view, rather than intensify the hostility that can too easily mount in a discussion such as this one.


Edited by The Latin Scot, 17 June 2017 - 10:17 AM.

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There is no such word as "Webelo." 

The only proper singular of Webelos Scouts is ... WEBELOS SCOUT!  


#239 RememberSchiff

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 10:38 AM

I tend to cut new members some slack. Let's refrain from name-calling and over passionate ranting.


Edited by RememberSchiff, 17 June 2017 - 10:40 AM.

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#240 desertrat77

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 12:53 PM

To amend a previous post of mine, I took another look at my late '70s Philmont crew photo.  Three adults are wearing the Eagle patch:  the college-age ranger, my SM (probably in his mid-30s at that point), and an ASM who was about 19.

 

Bottom line:  no one cared.  It was their uniform and if they earned it they could wear it.  Or not. 

 

I wouldn't say it happened a lot, but it wasn't unusual.  In fact, I recall scouters wearing their old square green first class or star patches on their uniform.  A few old Eagles wore the knot as well as the patch.  A bit redundant but to each their own.


Edited by desertrat77, 17 June 2017 - 12:53 PM.

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