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Eagle Scout Rank Patch wear after age 18


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#201 EmberMike

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 01:57 PM

I'm not advocating MORE bling for adults, per se. Just a better way for Eagles to be recognized.

 

 

That's kind of why I like your idea or the alternate council shoulder patch. It's recognition within existing insignia, rather than adding more. 

 

Personally I think the square knot says enough. This is a youth program, adult recognition should be subtle. 


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#202 TAHAWK

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 02:05 PM

It's funny, i thought the same thing. How could an Eagle knot NOT be obvious, right? But to most in Scouting they honestly don't know what the knots are for, let alone which signifies "I am an Eagle". 

 

The medal cannot be worn with the uniform, so it must be with a blazer. Wearing the Eagle necker all the time I think is like wearing your dress blues in the Marines; sure you look great but it is hardly practical. The shoulder patch would be great but not every council has one.

 

I was a soccer referee for a long time. When I retired I became an emeritus referee. Same patch, just with olive branches around it or something like that. Maybe BSA could do something like that for Eagles who are over 18.

 

I'm not advocating MORE bling for adults, per se. Just a better way for Eagles to be recognized.

 

Personally, I'd like to see knots limited to no more than 6, but that would make most district and council volunteers red with rage.

 

So I won a youth award over sixty years ago?  What should that mean to a Scout whose grandparents may not have been alive then?  He has no idea what was required for Eagle then - what my journey was.  Pin the Lifesaving MB on the ribbon?  I hope he judges me by my behavior - period.

 

You can wear the medal on the Official Uniform at "formal occasions."  I have done that once as an adult due to a specific request for a BPI that all Eagles wear their medals.  (Exploring Silver Award recipients were not asked to wear that medal.)


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#203 Col. Flagg

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 03:04 PM

That's kind of why I like your idea or the alternate council shoulder patch. It's recognition within existing insignia, rather than adding more. 

 

Personally I think the square knot says enough. This is a youth program, adult recognition should be subtle. 

 

I agree the knot should suffice. Too often very few people know what it means.

 

Also, I think wearing 10,000 knots on one's chest defeats the simple purpose of the knot. We have a guy who is a looooong time Scouter. Has upwards of 10 knots; wears three. Eagle Scout, AOL and his religious knot. That's it.

 

So I won a youth award over sixty years ago?  What should that mean to a Scout whose grandparents may not have been alive then?  He has no idea what was required for Eagle then - what my journey was.  Pin the Lifesaving MB on the ribbon?  I hope he judges me by my behavior - period.

 

You can wear the medal on the Official Uniform at "formal occasions."  I have done that once as an adult due to a specific request for a BPI that all Eagles wear their medals.  (Exploring Silver Award recipients were not asked to wear that medal.)

 

Don't disagree. I'd rather things be simple and clear, not just to us but to those who may have no idea what a patch may mean.

 

All I am saying is that if we want to simplify and call attention to Eagles, having something obvious and simple would work. It would require some thought from BSA and some restraint from Scouters who are knot-happy.


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#204 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 04:24 PM

Regarding knots, my philosophy is I don't care what you wear.

 

I do know from first hand experience, new Cub parents feel comfortable with someone "experience" in a leadership role, even if the experience is based upon working with Boy Scouts.

 

Me personally, I wear none to some to all, depending upon the shirt.


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#205 TAHAWK

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 04:32 PM

"I do know from first hand experience, new Cub parents feel comfortable with someone "experience" in a leadership role, even if the experience is based upon working with Boy Scouts."

 

Larger Service Stars?


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#206 EmberMike

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 09:26 AM

I do know from first hand experience, new Cub parents feel comfortable with someone "experience" in a leadership role, even if the experience is based upon working with Boy Scouts.

 

I think the "Trained" patch goes a long way in that regard. Even though in reality it doesn't take a heck of a lot of time or experience to get a Trained patch. But to parents who don't know anything about it, it's pretty self-explanatory. 

 

And that's kind of the problem with square knots, right? They're very abstract. Even people with years in the program couldn't identify many of them. Not sure I could name them all, especially the more uncommon ones. 

 

I hesitate to suggest that patches should be more wordy and explanatory like the Trained patch. We could easily start too look like we're wearing a nascar jumpsuit instead of a BSA uniform if every patch had text on it. But there is definitely some benefit to patches that make experience and training a bit easier to decipher. 


Edited by EmberMike, 16 February 2017 - 09:26 AM.

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#207 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 10:04 AM

The knots is what I mean.

 

They may not know what service stars mean. And having a trained patch for some may not mean much since they were recruited as a leader with their Cub and know they have to do online training only. But having the knots, even if they do not know what they mean are somewhat reassuring in my experience. And I also found the knots to be a convesation starter.


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#208 Col. Flagg

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 11:28 AM

I think the "Trained" patch goes a long way in that regard. Even though in reality it doesn't take a heck of a lot of time or experience to get a Trained patch. But to parents who don't know anything about it, it's pretty self-explanatory.

 

They may not know what service stars mean. And having a trained patch for some may not mean much since they were recruited as a leader with their Cub and know they have to do online training only.


When I was looking for Scout troops many years back, experience and training was one of my questions of each troop.

 

Fast forward many years later when I became an SM, and one of the things we provide to the visiting parents is a detailed summary of each's leaders' training and years of service. This has helped us a great deal in recruiting because we require all SMs to have the usual (YPT, IOLS, Lader-specific) training, but also require all the other online courses (x Safely, weather, etc.), and CPR/AED. We make sure we have at least 4-6 valid WRFA and ARC first aid trained folks too, which we often exceed. Since we do shooting sports we have 4-5 NRA and USA Archery trained folks as well. To top it off, we have the JASMs and many of the older Scouts take much of this training too Let's face it, it's easy and it helps show commitment to safety.


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#209 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 12:58 PM

I agree the more training the better, especially for Troops, Ships, and Crews.  But brand new Cub parents may not know what's up, or may find out the little training needed to be a Cub leader. The knots tell them someone has a clue as to what is going on :)


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#210 EmberMike

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 01:54 PM

 

When I was looking for Scout troops many years back, experience and training was one of my questions of each troop.

 

Fast forward many years later when I became an SM, and one of the things we provide to the visiting parents is a detailed summary of each's leaders' training and years of service. This has helped us a great deal in recruiting because we require all SMs to have the usual (YPT, IOLS, Lader-specific) training, but also require all the other online courses (x Safely, weather, etc.), and CPR/AED. We make sure we have at least 4-6 valid WRFA and ARC first aid trained folks too, which we often exceed. Since we do shooting sports we have 4-5 NRA and USA Archery trained folks as well. To top it off, we have the JASMs and many of the older Scouts take much of this training too Let's face it, it's easy and it helps show commitment to safety.

 

 

 

I really like this approach, giving parents detailed info about leadership. Might have to borrow this idea from you. :)


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#211 Col. Flagg

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 03:04 PM

I really like this approach, giving parents detailed info about leadership. Might have to borrow this idea from you. :)

 

You mean you want to appropriate it?  :D  Why not? We borrowed it from someone else too.

 

On our website we have "trained" patches next to the SMs, OA next to OA, etc. We even put the training resumes on the site so folks can see. This is included in the pdf file we distribute during the open house. It really helps cut down on the common questions during open house and allows the parents to see their kids having fun instead.


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#212 Lurking...

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 03:12 PM

I agree the more training the better, especially for Troops, Ships, and Crews.  But brand new Cub parents may not know what's up, or may find out the little training needed to be a Cub leader. The knots tell them someone has a clue as to what is going on :)

 

Not necessarily.  :)


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#213 Eagle94-A1

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 07:25 PM

Not necessarily.  :)

 

Oh I agree. I know I made mistakes. Biggest one was when I was a brand new DL, I sometimes treated them as Boy Scouts and expected them to act like Boy Scouts. Then get upset when they didn't meet the expectation. MISTAKE!


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#214 Gwaihir

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 01:30 PM

Oh I agree. I know I made mistakes. Biggest one was when I was a brand new DL, I sometimes treated them as Boy Scouts and expected them to act like Boy Scouts. Then get upset when they didn't meet the expectation. MISTAKE!

 

big mistake.  mistake i made for the first 6 months. I've since adjusted my expectations, and things have been moving along nicely. 


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#215 Ankylus

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 03:26 PM

My bigger issue on this point is--it's difficult enough for an 18 yo scouter to be considered and respected as an adult leader by the boys in the troop. Why make it more difficult by wearing the same uniform they wore as a youth?

 

My lesser issue is that some things are reserved for the youth and some things for the adults. Kind of a privilege kind of thing. So let the boys enjoy wearing their rank patches and let the adults enjoy wearing their knots.

 

My bizarro issue, what you going to do when some adult wants to wear his Star or Life rank patch? Or maybe they just don't like the look of the empty pocket and start sewing the Scout rank patch on there?

 

Still, all in all, I don't have much of an issue with any of these scenarios.


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#216 Lurking...

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 08:01 PM

I only made it to 2nd Class, but I have my old square green patch from back then.  Too many years have passed, too many bad memories.  I'll just stay in the box.


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#217 <3My2Eagles

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 09:58 PM

New to Scouter.com. and Never did a Forum before. :confused: ...

But, I was in search of answers for an upcoming Eagle Ceremony that I am having for my two boys and this site popped up!  I see that there are a lot of knowledgeable individuals on here! My boys Eagled 2 1/2 years apart from one another. (Due to some family illnesses,etc we were not able at that time to have a ceremony for my first boy.)  Now, my second son just Eagled, and I am Excited to hold One Ceremony for them both! (from 2 different Troops) ...

~ Questions:  They both were very close to their 18th birthday when they Eagled, so, they have not had the chance to wear their Eagle Patch :(​  (as everyone is discussing here.) I have not had the ceremony yet, so my boys do not have the Medal or a knot.

~ I believe that I will take their Portrait pics with an Eagle Patch on their pocket to have at the Ceremony.

However, are they to have NOTHING on their pocket for the Ceremony?

Son #1 just turned 21 and son #2 Just turned 18.  I'm confused.

~ I did just sign them up for N.E.S.A., so I guess they can wear that pin?... and I need to order the Neckerchief, but what is the difference between the Blue one or the White one?

 

I will appreciate any and all opinions. Thank you.


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#218 RememberSchiff

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 04:15 AM

Welcome to scoutercom and congratulations to your sons.


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#219 qwazse

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 04:57 AM

Welcome!
Enjoy the fun time with the ceremony.
Bottom line: it's the boys' court of honor. Thus, it's theirs to plan down to when the patches go on and off.
Our opinions on the matter just don't matter all that much.
I'm looking at Son #1's portrait right now (age 18 at the time), and the eagle medal is pinned on his his pocket, which still has a life patch sewn on it. He's wearing the red, white, and, blue necker with the least expensive slide.
I don't know where Son #2's portrait is (third child syndrome), but they pretty much look like twins 6 years apart.

Edited by qwazse, 09 June 2017 - 04:58 AM.

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#220 Col. Flagg

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 09:47 AM

~ Questions:  They both were very close to their 18th birthday when they Eagled, so, they have not had the chance to wear their Eagle Patch :(​  (as everyone is discussing here.) I have not had the ceremony yet, so my boys do not have the Medal or a knot.

~ I believe that I will take their Portrait pics with an Eagle Patch on their pocket to have at the Ceremony.

However, are they to have NOTHING on their pocket for the Ceremony?

Son #1 just turned 21 and son #2 Just turned 18.  I'm confused.

~ I did just sign them up for N.E.S.A., so I guess they can wear that pin?... and I need to order the Neckerchief, but what is the difference between the Blue one or the White one?

 

  • Wearing Eagle Patch: BSA guidelines say that Eagles in Boy Scouts cannot wear the patch after they turn 18. Eagles in Venturing CAN wear the patch until they are 21. After 18 in Boy Scouts and 21 in Venturing, Eagles wear the Eagle knot. That said, there's nothing wrong with sewing the patch on and taking an Eagle portrait after the ceremony.
     
  • Eagle COH Portraits: Since you are usually a Life Scout when you attend your Eagle COH (though you are technically an Eagle after national approves your application) one would not expect him to be wearing his Eagle rank for a portrait. Although there may be circumstances where Eagle is given prior to the COH. Most Scouts are wearing their Life rank at their Eagle COH. There's no BSA Uniform Police that are going to jail you for sewing on the Eagle patch, taking a pic and then sewing back on his Life patch. I must say it would be VERY odd for someone who is 21 to be wearing the Boy Scout uniform with an Eagle already on it.
     
  • Eagle Neckerchiefs: The blue necker is what Eagles Scouts are awarded. This can be worn at any time by an Eagle Scout, even as an adult, though they would not wear the Eagle patch, but rather the Eagle knot. The white necker is what NESA members can wear at any time. Both youth and adult members can wear the NESA necker.

Here's some info on wearing the Eagle medal. Here's another on when exactly you become an Eagle Scout.

 

This should help answer your questions.


Edited by Col. Flagg, 09 June 2017 - 09:49 AM.

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