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A few individuals again abusing restricted items on eBay.


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#41 Scouter.

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 03:23 PM

No joke. I'm not sure what else they would have sold me either. I've got a friend that is the International Rep for our council...I'll give it to him. I can't wear it. But someone was right...you can buy it from your local scout shop.
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#42 krypton_son

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Posted 14 November 2016 - 08:12 AM

While I agree that some things shouldn't be sold on ebay, I can't really be too upset about this.  I collect patches and sometimes the only way you can get them is from ebay.  I don't have the whole set of the centennial rank patches and I'd love to get it.  Honestly, I'll probably go to ebay to do it.


Edited by krypton_son, 14 November 2016 - 08:13 AM.

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#43 jr56

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 02:58 PM

Collecting scout items is one thing.  Buying things you have not earned, and then wearing them on your uniform as if you have, is something totally different.


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#44 krypton_son

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 03:01 PM

Collecting scout items is one thing.  Buying things you have not earned, and then wearing them on your uniform as if you have, is something totally different.

 

I agree 100%.  I collect Boy Scout memorabilia.  Rank insignia are a big part of that.  I have several knot patches that I haven't earned myself, I would never think of wearing them.  I am all for rank patches, knots, medals, etc. being for sale on ebay, it's a great place for collectors to get them.  Trying to pass them off as your own is despicable.


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#45 Ankylus

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 02:17 PM

and since it is a copyrighted item I believe, there could be actual legal implications.

 

Actually, copyright is of no assistance here. The Copyright Act of 1976 contains an explicit limitation on copyright under what is known as the "first sale doctrine". Under this doctrine, once a copyrighted item is sold the rights of copyright are exhausted. This is the same doctrine that lets you sell your used books and records to stores that specialize in that kind of things. (There are some rights of copyright that are excepted from this doctrine, but they are not pertinent here.) So once an evildoer legitimately buys the item, his resale activities are beyond the scope of copyright law.


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#46 Ankylus

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 02:19 PM

So how does an adult scouter get a philmont arrowhead patch, well ebay of course....Carrying 100 pound packs and the trails that go straight up the mountain, when asked if they came back to base camp over the tooth, no clue what I was talking about. Northern tier, Jamboree patchs, woodbadge beads, heck you can be a 4 beader for $29.99 with free shipping. There is a lot of Fake eagle scouts, Philmont crew members, woodbadgers and Jamboree participants...... Heck you can be a West knot wearer for $5.99. Many scouters judge you by what is on your shirt and around your neck.....It creates a black market in false reputation in the form of colored strips of cloth.

 

I agree with your assessment here, but this whole thread gets back to one of my pet peeves about scouting--the ridiculous amount of work associated with adult awards. People will be trustworthy about this kind of thing or they won't. Stacking loads of paperwork requirements on the award won't ensure a single thing.


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#47 Ankylus

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 02:23 PM

There is nothing on the books about someone selling a Congressional Medal of Honor on E-Bay. It is only illegal if one wears it. The same holds true for any military medal of any sort. Does anyone think anyone cares if the US government isn't going to regulate military medals, that someone's going to get bent out of shape because someone sold an old Eagle pin on E-Bay? Stosh

 

I have actually seen a genuine, authentic Medal of Honor for sale, back before the Inner Webs was a thing. An almost surreal experience.


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#48 Ankylus

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 02:34 PM

Clause 9. All badges and insignia shall remain the property of the Boy Scouts of America subject to recall for cause by the Corporation or its duly authorized representative."  T 36 United States Code Chapter 309.

 

The citation is 36 U.S.C. Section 30905.

 

Here's the link: http://uscode.house....36-section30905

 

The citation is 36 U.S.C. Section 30905.

 

Here is the text:

 

§30905. Exclusive right to emblems, badges, marks, and words

The corporation has the exclusive right to use emblems, badges, descriptive or designating marks, and words or phrases the corporation adopts. This section does not affect any vested rights.

( Pub. L. 105–225, Aug. 12, 1998, 112 Stat. 1326 .)

 

What is missing? A cause of action to enforce the rights. Not saying there isn't one, but the law does not provide one here.

I would love to see the legal opinion by which they think they can enforce this right.


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#49 Ankylus

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 04:27 PM

Actually the BSA insignia are registered trademarks. Not sure how that differs from copyright, but I'll leave that up to the legal beagles, er..beavers. Last Christmas, a friend gave me a set of the centennial rank badges that he had purchased on Ebay, because he thought I would like them as a collector. If the BSA wants them back, they can pry them from my cold, dead, fingers...or buy them for a buck at the yard sale after I die.

 

 

Trademarks aren't all that different from copyrights in this respect. That's why you don't have to tear the Ford, Chevy, GMC etc. logos off your car when you sell it or trade it in.


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#50 EmberMike

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 09:36 AM

Resurrecting an oldie here...

 

This whole topic is fascinating. I've really never even considered that someone could be wearing some sort of earned insignia without having actually earned it. Which I know is totally naive, but I guess I just figured, "It's Scouting, the first point in the law is 'Trustworthy', surely this can't be a real issue." 

 

I've seen insignia violations (middle-age adult wearing the eagle badge sort of stuff), but I really never considered that someone I've encountered could be wearing false insignia, knots/beads they didn't earn, etc. 

 

Nothing else to add, just that I'm unreasonably shocked by this.  :)


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#51 krikkitbot

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 09:41 AM

Even the military had issues with this. That's why Congress passed the Stolen Valor Act. Unfortunately the SCOTUS struck it down saying it fell under free speech. 


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#52 qwazse

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 04:01 PM

... Nothing else to add, just that I'm unreasonably shocked by this.  :)

Never let the poor behavior of a few overshadow the good of the many.


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#53 TAHAWK

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 08:10 PM

No way to tell.  When National required all councils to switch to the software National used in 2005, all prior records were lost.  My record says I completed SM training in 1912.  Where do I get my 110 Year Service Pin?


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#54 fred johnson

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 08:58 AM

Where do I get my 110 Year Service Pin?

 

Not sure ... You may want to ask all the district and council staffers I've seen that may have also earned it.  It ain't a young crowd.


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