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How to define "activities" for Second Class and First Class


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#1 LanceEagle

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 08:04 AM

I'm looking to find out if other Troops have specific criteria to determine what does, or what does not, constiute a valid "activity" for Second Class and First Class requirement 3a and 3 respectively (pasted below). The requirement seems very clear cut, yet this has become a contested issue within our Troop. Do you count Troop service projects? Eagle service projects? Troop fundraisers? This has become somewhat of an issue within our Troop. Second Class 3a.Since joining, have participated in five separate troop/patrol activities (other than troop/patrol meetings), two of which included camping overnight. First Class 3. Since joining, have participated in ten separate troop/patrol activities (other than troop/patrol meetings), three of which included camping overnight. Demonstrate the principles of Leave No Trace on these outings.
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#2 Twocubdad

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 08:15 AM

"Meetings" are held every Tuesday night "Campouts" include sleeping under the stars or in a tent. Everything else is an "activity." Of course both campouts and activities count toward the requirement.
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#3 shortridge

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 08:22 AM

Service projects, patrol hikes, Scout Sunday/Sabbath, camporees, campouts, etc. On a practical level, though, this should not be an issue for an active unit. If you camp every month, a Scout who joins in March can have these knocked out by December. No biggie.
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#4 perdidochas

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 08:45 AM

We count Troop service projects, and Eagle Service projects in our activity list for 2/1.
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#5 T2Eagle

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 08:57 AM

We count anything that's not a "troop or patrol meeting": eagle and troop service projects, fundraisers, scout sunday, parade, pretty much anything scout related. We read the requirement as a question of do you show up for things besides just the Wednesday night meetings. I see this as a requirement that rewards enthusiasm at the early stages of a scout's career not something that acts as a high hurdle to advancement.
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#6 Beavah

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 09:00 AM

Yah, I'll echo shortridge's comment, eh? If this requirement is actually what is holdin' up a kid for rank, then yeh have to fix the rest of your advancement and outdoors program. There should be almost no practical way for a boy to have fulfilled the other requirements without havin' exceeded these requirements by a fair margin. Once yeh get down to this sort of thing being a contested issue, yeh know that somethin' has gone off the rails. I'd encourage yeh to figure out how to take a big step back and wean everybody from the notion that advancement is the program, rather than lettin' anyone waste people's time by tryin' to lawyer out the definition of "activity." Or, to put it another way, perhaps it isn't showin' good scout spirit for 2nd Class to argue with your Patrol Leader over what constitutes an "activity" ;) Beavah
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#7 Basementdweller

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 09:01 AM

If activities definitions and counts are a problem.....Maybe you should step back and look at your program because it is weak. Last year we had 35 activities and so far this year we have had 12.......
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#8 qwazse

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 09:26 AM

First, I show a boy where in the book he should list his activities. (Why it's not in the requirements page simply defies reason. So, I figure this is one case where I don't just give the kid the "There's this thing called an index line.") I encourage him to write down the one or two he's seen so far. Second, I encourage PLs to only sign that one off if the activities are listed in the scout's own writing. The point of this is in my opinion to teach the boy a basic discipline of reflecting on his scouting career - not to make sure his attendance is checked off and logged in some electronic administrative quagmire. Here's one for y'all. Thanks to enthusiastic parents, boy's 10th activity is a council event that he attended on a weekend when the troop had nothing planned. If he put it down, I'd count it. What would you do?
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#9 Eagle92

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 11:51 AM

Here's what counted for adavancement back in the day. Service projects Patrol Hikes Patrol Shopping Troop fundraisers Troop Hikes Camp outs COHs (usually not on the same nite as our meetings) ECOHs Scout Shows.
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#10 Oak Tree

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 12:01 PM

We do not count anything that happens on the troop meeting night - even if we are doing something other than a "meeting". But pretty much anything that happens on another day would count. The only exception are the monthly PLC meetings - which are "meetings". We count service projects, Eagle projects, fundraisers, Scout Sunday, camping trips, day trips, patrol hikes, swim checks. We don't count merit badge days because those are generally not a troop or patrol activity.
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#11 Tampa Turtle

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 01:18 PM

Our list is same as Eagle92's list except we only count Service Projects done as a Patrol or Troop not individual.
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#12 CalicoPenn

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 02:13 PM

Is it something the Troop or Patrol has done together that is not a meeting? Then it's an activity. If the patrol decides to get together as a pstrol on a Saturday morning to play frisbee golf? Patrol activity and it counts. Troop gets together on a Saturday morning to clean out the Troop trailer? Troop activity and it counts. Pretty much everything everyone has listed could and should be considered an activity. Activities don't always have to be outdoors, or advancement focused - sometimes - in fact most time - it should just be plain old fun. Qwazse asks an interesting question though (and since I'm usually the first one to jump to the lads side on most every advancement question, I might make Beavah and a couple of others faint). A Scout attends a Council (or District) event on his own, not with the Troop or with his Patrol - and it's not part of the Troop's calendar. I don't believe I would accept it as an activity because the requirement isn't to attend 5 (or 10) Scouting activities - it's attend 5 (or 10) Troop/Patrol activities. Now if a lad was to ask if it would count before going to the activity, I might gather the PLC together for a 5 minute confab to see if they would add the activity to the Troop's calendar as an "optional" activity that a Scout would need to find his own way there, and if agreed upon, make sure that all the other Scouts are informed of the activity and let them know they have the option to go on their own, but if they were to approach me afterward, I'd ask if they had a good time and let them know that it's just not a Troop/Patrol activity but not to worry because we have activity X coming up in the next couple of weeks.
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#13 Tampa Turtle

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 02:30 PM

We do not count a Council or District activity as done as an individual (for example a MB academy). I think the logic is anything that fosters "group spirit" over the individual. A half-way active scout should be able to bang this one out pretty easy in our Troop.
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#14 LanceEagle

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 09:08 AM

Thanks to all, lots of great information and feedback.The contentious issue within our Troop is the fact that our SM is not willing to accept any service oriented activities for the purpose of advancment; that's about a third of all activities that we do. The scouts are participating just not getting credit for it because of the SM's view on this matter. What this boils down to is that, in most cases, only camping trips count for advancement, so for a. boy to earn Second Class he must have five overnight camping trips and similarly ten overnight camping trips for First Class. As a result of all of this, advancement within our Troop is very slow. To date, none of our scouts who just hit the one year mark (after crossing over Feb. 2011) have earned the rank of Tenderfoot. Of the boys who just hit the two year mark this month (crossed over Feb. 2010) none have advanced beyond Second Class; and to be clear the vast majority of these boys are active. Yes, there are most definitely weaknesses to our program that we are trying to address
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#15 CalicoPenn

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 09:23 AM

You're absolutely right there is a weakness in your program - that weakness is your Scoutmaster, who has made up his own rules, and a Committee, COR and Parents that are letting him get away with it instead of insisting he follow the program or be replaced. It is unconscionable that you have lads that crossed over a year ago that have not earned Tenderfoot as a result of this guys "policy". You can call in a Unit Commissioner to have a friendly chat with him to see if he can point this Scoutmaster back to true north, or you get the COR and Committee Chair to have a cup of coffee with him to make sure he follows BSA policies and procedures, and not his own. If he won't? Let him go.
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#16 Twocubdad

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 09:51 AM

Time out. What policy has this Scoutmaster violated? Maybe this fellow simply has a conviction that service should be done for the sake of helping others. Maybe he sees getting "credit" for providing service somehow dimishes the service. Maybe that is the philosophy of the chartered organization? We've had plenty of debates here over double dipping and who service projects may benefit. Before you start collecting feathers and heating he tar, it's worth a rational conversation. Not that I agree with him, but I think you have to give the fellow the benefit. Advancement sign-off are his call. ON THE OTHER HAND, let's do some math here, Lance. There is no activity requirement for Tenderfoot, so how is this preventing the guys from making rank? Even if the SM only counted campouts, how are boys not amassing five campouts in two years? Are the opportunities to camp not there? What does your troop's program schedule look like. This weekend alone out troop has three different activities going on in which our Scouts could participate. That's the issue. Counting service projects for activities is a red herring.
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#17 Tampa Turtle

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 10:01 AM

I think that is BS. We have a prohibition on boys claiming credit for individual service (usually hitting boys doing HS Service, alter boys, and my son who works sundays at a soup kitchen). But if the boys are doing service as a Troop or Patrol and are identified as Troop X they should get credit. If the requirement was "10 campouts" it would say "10 campouts".
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#18 jg2924

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 06:19 AM

Are the activities for First Class cumulative? My specific question is does the campout for Tenderfoot count towards the 5 for Second Class and do the 5 for Second Class count towards the 10 for First Class?


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#19 qwazse

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 09:07 AM

Are the activities for First Class cumulative? My specific question is does the campout for Tenderfoot count towards the 5 for Second Class and do the 5 for Second Class count towards the 10 for First Class?

First and foremost, have your scout read the requirements and ask him what he thinks it means. Then do that.

 

But, just so you have it in the back of your head, the requirement is "Since joining, participate in 10 separate troop/patrol activities ..." So, yes, the overnight for tenderfoot counts for 2nd class, and the five activities for 2nd class count again for 1st class. If you think of it as activities per rank, it's kind of a nice progression of 1+4+5.


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#20 Chadamus

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 09:16 AM

Are the activities for First Class cumulative? My specific question is does the campout for Tenderfoot count towards the 5 for Second Class and do the 5 for Second Class count towards the 10 for First Class?

 

jg, welcome to the forum!

 

Yes, the activities are cumulative whether not not they are an overnight campout.

However, a certain number of activties must be overnight campouts.

For Tenderfoot, campout one overnight.

For 2nd class, campout two more times to meet the requirement of three (count the one from Tenderfoot).

For 1st class, campout three more times to meet the requirement of six (count the one from Tenderfoot and the two from 2nd class).

 

I say campout as much as you can!  :)


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