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Eagle Board of Review Question


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#21 evmori

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 07:46 AM

Actually, I think a scolding by the scout to the asking adult about the sanctity of the secret ballot and how it relates to the integrity of the election process would be appropriate. LOL!
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#22 John-in-KC

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 08:31 AM

Actually, I think that would open up a tremendous line of conversation within the EBOR :)
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#23 OldGreyEagle

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 08:33 AM

Hmm, I have to repeat my post, I dont see a problem asking a scout his stand on a political issue or who he intend to vote for and why. I want to hear his reasons. Now, to my way of thinking, there is no debate or rebuttal to the scouts answer. Question asked, answered and we move on. Its a board of review, not a politcal debate or discussion group. However, if the youth shot back an answer such as Hillary because she is such a babe, I might aquestion whether or not the scout respects the BOR.
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#24 Bob White

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 08:49 AM

If you want to know how the candidate stands o a political issue then why not just ask them what they think is an important issue to consider when choosing who to vote for? You can easily find out what he feels about issues without requiring him to reveal who he intends to vote for in a secret ballot. Would you condone a group of older scouts calling a younger scout into a roome and asking to know who he intends to vote for in a troop election? The question is rude and coercive.
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#25 evmori

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 09:08 AM

If you want to know how the candidate stands o a political issue then why not just ask them what they think is an important issue to consider when choosing who to vote for? You can easily find out what he feels about issues without requiring him to reveal who he intends to vote for in a secret ballot. Since the Scout isn't 18 yet, he can't vote so he won't be casting his secret ballot therefore not revealing anything secret. Would you condone a group of older scouts calling a younger scout into a roome and asking to know who he intends to vote for in a troop election? Would anyone? No. Then again, that is totally different and a poor analogy. The question is rude and coercive. Rude? How? Coercive? How? Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10
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#26 packsaddle

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 09:17 AM

Ed, I think in the original scenario the scout was going to turn 18 after the EBOR but before November, therefore able to vote then.
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#27 GernBlansten

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 09:18 AM

Ed, If in your annual performance review, your boss asked you who you were going to vote for, would that be appropriate? Would it be rude or coercive?
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#28 evmori

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 09:38 AM

Ed, If in your annual performance review, your boss asked you who you were going to vote for, would that be appropriate? Would it be rude or coercive? Gern, Who I vote for has nothing to do with my job. And my annual review is not in anyway shape or form similar to an EBOR. Again, poor analogy. And if I was asked, my answer would be "The candidate who I feel is the best one for the job." The question at an EBOR "Who would you vote for in the upcoming election?" is directly related to citizenship. Are we afraid to ask direct questions at an EBOR? And if so, why? Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10
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#29 OldGreyEagle

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 09:39 AM

Seeing as how we have had a bunch of "Death Bed" Eagles, it is entirely possible to have an EBOR for a scout who is over 18, at least within 3 months of his 18th birthday. So, it is entirely possible to be speaking to a registered voter when doing an EBOR. And I don't see how asking a scout who he is thinking of voting for is rude and coercive if you ask and listen to the thought process that lead the person to the selection and move on. No, you don't debate or argue the selection, you listen to the reasoning and move on. If you can't ask the question without adding a value judgement, then don't ask the question. I think the question is valid, judging the answer is not. This does bring up a quesiton, some don't want to have a scout's thoughts on reverence brought up because its too personal. And now, who the youth will vote for is too personal. A few people even suggested that the scout should respond by saying, My religious beliefs are my private thoughts and I dont feel comfortable discussing them or words to that effect, and now, we encourage the scout to answer the question of who they will vote for with an answer of 'none of your beeswax or something similar. So, what about other attributes? When you ask a scout what being trustworthy means to them, can they answer none of your beeswax or being trustworthy is part of my personal code of conduct and I dont feel comfortable discussing it with you? What about loyal? Friendly? The reason for questions that cannot be asnwered with a yes or no is to see how the scout reasons and communicates, there are no right or wrong questions that can be asked, well, I guess 2, but thats thats it!
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#30 GernBlansten

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 09:54 AM

Actually Ed, I think the analogy of an employee performance review and an EBOR is pretty good. The BOR is a performance review of the scout. Why ask the scout who he's going to vote for if his answer should have no bearing on the decision of the board? Why do you care? Ask him IF he is going to vote. Ask him HOW he will decide who to vote for. Ask him WHY he should vote. But never WHO.
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#31 Trevorum

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 09:56 AM

Depending on context, the question could well be both rude and/or coercive. A much better approach to the topic would be along the lines of, "Have you considered how you will vote this November?" In general however, I feel that politics is not an appropriate topic for a BoR. While the topic is closely interlinked to civic duty and patriotism (which are great topics for any BoR), with politics there's too much room for subtle power issues by the adults in the room. This is very close to how I feel about the religion vs. reverence issue we discussed in a recent thread. It's fine for an adult to ask a fellow how he shows reverence, but the direct question, "Do you believe in God" should be avoided because it has too much room for unanticipated misunderstanding.
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#32 evmori

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 10:36 AM

Why ask, Gern? Why not? It seems we are too worried about invading someones private space! Yeah who you are going to vote for is a personal matter. So if your religious beliefs. So are many other things. Just because these are personal, does that mean they are off limits? I don't think so. If the Scout answers "it has no bearing......." to the who question, he's gonna probably answer the same way to the other renditions of the question. And if I was sitting on his EBOR, I would request the Scout to "Please tell the members of this board why you feel this way". The question "Who would you vote for?" is not rude or invasive or coercive. Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10
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#33 GernBlansten

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 11:22 AM

Why not ask what the scouts favorite color is too. Both questions have no bearing on the decision of the board nor his fitness to be an eagle scout. Are irrelevent questions appropriate ora waste of the scouts and the boards time.
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#34 evmori

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 12:24 PM

Ahh! The favorite color ruse! Think citizenship Gern! From Citizenship in the Nation (emphasis mine) 7. Name the three branches of our federal government and explain to your counselor their functions. Explain how citizens are involved in each branch. For each branch of government, explain the importance of the system of checks and balances. Voting is one of the most important ways we are involved. Whether it is voting for people running for office or referendums on ballots, it is our right as Americans to be involved in this! BTW,, my favorite color is Kelly green! Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10
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#35 RangerT

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 01:01 PM

I have to agree with Gern here, "Who are you going to vote for?" versus "Do you understand the importance of voting in being a good citizen?" are very different, one invades personal guaranteed rights while the other addresses being a good citizen. Sorry ED but you are way off base here. Which of these questions is the most appropriate and which has no place in an Eagle COH, I think any rational person can see that for themselves, it is fairly obvious.
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#36 evmori

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 01:21 PM

Well, RangerT, you might feel I am way off base. I don't. Asking a Scout who is up for the highest award the BSA has for a youth member a direct question should be expected. We are to help prepare boys to make moral & ethical decisions. Glossing over tough topics doesn't do that. And asking anyone "Who would you vote for?" invades nothing. Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10
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#37 Trevorum

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 02:44 PM

Picture this scenario: Your boss calls you in for a conference. He has lots of experience and is very knowledgable and is sorta intimidating to you. You're up for a raise and really want to impress him. He looks at your file soberly, and asks you some questions. You handle these questions easily. But then, he asks you who you'll be voting for in the election! You don't see what this has to do with your raise, but you know you must give him an answer because he's your boss. You have no idea what his politics are and you certainly don't want to offend him if he is prickly about these things. You don't know for sure that he'll deny your raise if you like a candidate whom he can't stand, but you really don't want to take the chance. What do you say? Dang! Why did he have to ask you a question about politics! OK, now substitute "Scoutmaster" for "boss" and "Eagle" for "raise".
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#38 RangerT

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 04:20 PM

Trev, I like your scenario. Ed you are way off base on this one and that question has about as much revelence as asking the scout if he is a virgin, both of these questions are none of your or anyone elses business and are totally inappropriate at any BOR. ED it would be like asking you if you ever cheated on your wife. I really hope you don't sit on any BOR's Ed because your sense of appropriateness and common sense is sorely lacking.
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#39 evmori

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 04:25 PM

Not even close Trev! In my job, my politics has nothing to do with my job. Bad example! Why do people have a problem with this? I have sat on a lot of EBOR's RangerT & this question along with a lot of other direct questions were asked and I have yet to see a Scout or parent be offended. So who are you going to vote for? Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10
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#40 GernBlansten

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 04:43 PM

ed, a scout's politics has nothing to do with being an Eagle scout.
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