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Posted by fred johnson on 04 August 2016 - 02:46 PM
Posted by Krampus on 01 June 2016 - 11:07 AM
We spent the two and a half weeks since this tragedy helping the families to heal, to help the troop and friends find a way to grieve and remember our lost Scout, and to find a way to move forward. It has not been easy. We have a support network in place to help the families over the summer as they attempt to get back to a sense of normalcy. We've raised over 30k for a scholarship fund in the Scout's name to help others. The unit is coming up with a way to remember him on our uniform, and they have created a few other things in his honor which will become part of our unit's lore. We have also met with district and council to review the insurance and other programs in place which can benefit the families. Lastly, our council has asked our unit leadership to develop an action plan other unit's can use should they be faced with a similar situation.
I hope you all can enjoy your time in Scouting without ever having to deal with such a monumental loss. However, if you ever find yourself in need of some advice I am more than willing to share how our unit handled and dealt with this tragedy. It may help you determine how you will respond.
Yours in Scouting,
Posted by SCOUTER-Terry on 23 July 2015 - 07:00 PM
The volunteer moderators of this forum do cheerful service, usually just keeping SCOUTER.com organized and enjoyable.
The policy and standard of decorum for participation here has always included (1) acting Scoutlike and (2) behaving as you would standing around a campfire where Scouts and Scouters could gather.
The Issues and Politics Forum have always had greater leeway, because important and interesting issues deserved to be discussed.
The expected change in policy by BSA is a major inflection point (one long overdue in my opinion, though I respect that some may disagree based on their religious beliefs). It's certainly roused activity in this forum, and the Moderators are busy trying to maintain some semblance of decorum.
Here's the standard and direction I will give to Moderators:
- Scouting already decided that every unit must not discriminate, exclude or otherwise harm gay kids. Period. No exceptions. And there very well may be one of those kids in your unit, or certainly reading this forum.
- Scouting seems poised to decide that only religiously-chartered units may choose to not select gay parents or leaders as mentors, and that would take effect immediately (like, next week).
- It is impossible to honor point #1 above while standing around a campfire (or this virtual campfire we call SCOUTER.com) denigrating or shouting angrily into the wind your personal distaste for gay people. It's impossible to honor point #1 while disparaging an entire group of people that may include one of those kids.
As such, I encourage moderators to simply delete posts they feel could violate point #1 above.
If excluding gay adults is something your church sponsored unit decides to do, and a message they want to send to gay kids that might be growing up in that unit, that is up to the sponsor to decide. Similarly, it's now up to the parents and Scouts to decide if they want to stay a part of that unit, or walk across to the street to join or start a new unit.
As for THIS public "campfire", we welcome discussion, and we welcome sincerely held, politely-stated personal beliefs. But we will not be used as a platform that sends denigrating messages to gay kids who may be within earshot. Scouting has moved past that, thank God.
PS - If you dislike my position above, feel free to move on to a different forum (or start one of your own!). If you refuse to follow this standard, be prepared to be blocked from future participation in the forum.
PPS - Thank you, thank you, thank you to the volunteer Moderators, who 99% of the time are doing the thankless task of deleting spam, organizing topics and chasing down bug reports, and for their incredible "moderation", patience and service to our community in just keeping the cheerful spark burning.
Posted by Hedgehog on 03 February 2017 - 09:31 AM
I've read through the various posts and thought that it would be helpful to share my perspective as a Venturing Crew advisor for a Crew with two trangender youths. I haven't seen anyone else post that has experience with transgender youths within the BSA.
Let me start off by telling you that in the Troop and in the Crew, I consider all of the Scouts to be "my Scouts." I get to know them on a personal basis. I truly like all of them based on their positive traits and I truly care about all of them based on their shortcommings. I know there is amazing power that youth derive from having an adult like them for who they are and believe in them.
So let me tell you about my Crew. We've got the muscian and actor who loves backpacking and hiking. We've got the NYLT trained goofball that is my son. We've got a Crew President who is intelligent, atheletic and a complete robotics geek. We've got the similarly geeky friend of the Crew president who loves adventure. We've got a kid who was never in scouting before but loves the outdoors and a sarcastic 9th grader who I've known since around age 6. We have a child of our Troop's SM who is shy and quiet and a child of one of our Troop's ASMs who is intelligent, curious and talkative. We have a Venturer who transferred from another Crew because it wasn't youth-led. We have a Crew member that my son has known since he was six months old, who is good friends with most of the Crew members and finds time for the Crew despite being so involved in activities and academics. Last but not least, we have the really shy Scout (in whom I see great potential) that smiles everytime I tell the Crew that "In Venturing, everyone is a leader." That IS who they ARE. Gender (or gender identity) is irrelevant.
It is all well and good to have opinions in the abstract. But opinions don't matter when you actually meet a transgender kid, especially a teenager. They are like any other teenager, trying to figure out who they are in the world. I often say that every kid needs scouting for a different reason and transgendered kids are no different. The youths in my Crew all need to learn organizational skills, leadership, how to build a fire, how to organize an outing, how to cook as well as the adults, how to pack for a week long backpacking trip and how to grow into an adult.
Do we have YPT issues? No, because it is Venturing and we have a male and female advisor along on every outing. Do we have tenting issues? No, the youths figured it out without any adult interference. Do we have toilet issues? No, most trees are not gender specific and most latrines are singular with doors (except for the latrine from last weekend's outing which had two toilet seats side by side on a bench without a divider -- we all laughed at that one). How does the Crew feel about it? They are a Crew built on interlocking friendships -- to them, they are all just Scouts. How cool is it to have a group of kids that like each other for who they are?
Just for reference, I'm a true conservative having voted for a conservative (not libertarian) third party Presidential candidate because I couldn't vote for a candidate that said "government is the solution" or a candidate that said "I am the solution." I have strong religious values. My conservative politics believes in the power and value of individualism. My faith teaches that we should love one another as Jesus loved us. The Scout Law teaches that we should be "kind."
Each of the members of the Crew are MY Scouts and I can tell you that they are all amazing, unique and good kids. That is all that matters.
Posted by UncleP on 18 July 2016 - 08:51 PM
Of course their were rough spots, but more good than bad. He earned his merit badge in swimming and took the First Year Camper program. Being outdoors, the change in environment was therapeutic for him. It showed him that the world is more than being quiet for his parents naps. It is amazing what a change can do for a boy.
The rough spots included dealing with the other boys, and the lack of privacy. He is a little obsessive compulsive, so the dirty and disorder got to him. He found the activities harder than he thought.
But even these things were good in my own opinion. He is starting to learn how to deal with people in the real world. He is learning to deal with things that make him feel uncomfortable, rather than just avoiding them. Finally, now that he realizes how hard it is, he is more likely to forget about advancement, and think more about having fun.
PS - I am almost a little jealous of him, and what good he can do for himself.
Posted by Tampa Turtle on 08 July 2016 - 09:06 AM
Just passed his EBOR. (I know we are waiting on national now) I have spoken of him in past. He has a number of disabilities but has been a hardy camper and backpacker. (120 nights/800 miles in scouts) Very old school. The Eagle paperwork was a major challenge for him. Will age out in 6 weeks but because he was held back in Elementary school still has a couple years to go before college.
Said he was 'over prepared' for Board. Was asked question about views of ISIS and Islam (by chance he was prepared for). Scout law most important:Reverent. Scout Law willing to drop:Loyal (his logic was loyalty to something evil is not a good thing, you may need to drop it). As he is 'on the spectrum' his answers were always pretty direct.
I cannot help but flash back to the Tiger 10 years ago who the 1st time he met an Eagle Scout said "someday I'm gonna be an Eagle Scout". *sniff* He did say I made him do it the hard way.
* and a few ladies
Posted by MrBob on 09 June 2016 - 05:13 PM
Posted by Hedgehog on 18 April 2016 - 09:17 AM
Other than for legal issues, grand theft auto, bank robbery, etc. and gross non-adherence to the Scout Oath and Law, what issues would be grounds for removing a scout from the program?
1, Failing to use a dutch oven to cook at least once on a campout.
2. Asking "are we there yet?" on a hike.
3. Washing cast iron with soap.
4. Wearing anything cotton.
5. Leaving their hiking boots to close to where others are sleeping and having a scout pass out due to asphyxiation.
6. Visiting the adult campsite when it isn't an emergency.
7. Taking more than one match to light a campfire
8. Forgetting to flush the latrine or leaving the seat up.
9. Eating off a paper towel because they forgot their mess kit.
10. Using squirt guns instead of hydrostatic propulsion devices on a canoing trip.
Posted by Cambridgeskip on 04 February 2016 - 04:30 AM
Just though I’d share a thought on a couple of members of my troop.
It’s their last night tonight. They are 2 of a group of 4 who will be moving onto Explorers, and these 2 will live long in the memory. You try not to have favourites among the kids that come through the troop over the years but some….. well some just make you smile.
These two are the best of inseparable friends. It’s a boy and a girl. They’re not a couple, despite the ribbing they get off the rest of the troop. She’s PL, he’s APL of the same patrol. He could have made PL, he’s certainly got the gift of the gab to do it and is highly influential among the troop, but they didn’t want to be separated into different patrols so they stayed as a pair.
They are by no means angels. There’s plenty of mischief from the pair of them. There’s plenty of back chat, “banter” and occasional over stepping the mark, but none of it is meant to be nasty. It’s just teenagers pushing boundaries. Besides, scouts would be seriously dull if all we ever got through the door was angels. During a first aid refresher a couple of weeks ago she managed to tie his arms and legs together with bandages without him noticing. One of the funniest things I’d seen in ages!
They have some proper team spirit to them. Their patrol, while by no means the cleanest, tidiest (their patrol kitchen at summer camp…. Oh good grief!) or most smartly dressed in the troop (uniform can be shambolic) are clearly the most tight knit in the troop and properly look out for each other.
Without them the troop is going to be a calmer, tidier, more disciplined place. It’s going to be a lot less fun though.
Posted by KenD500 on 21 May 2015 - 01:21 PM
I am one who agrees with Mr Gates. I am heterosexual male and don't care if you're homosexual, yellow, white, black, or other.
Boys need this program. I will continue to provide it.
Posted by David CO on 31 January 2017 - 12:57 AM
There are no "coed" Boy Scout troops, at least not officially. This policy change does not alter that.
Or, to put it another way, Stosh, the BSA has changed its definition of "boy". Their definition now agrees with yours "only" about 99.97% of the time, not 100%.
I disagree. I don't think this change in registration policy will be limited to the transgender issue. There will be girls who will register as boys simply because they disagree with BSA's boys-only policy.
There will be coed units.
I can't accurately predict how many girls will join, but I'm certain it will be more than 0.03%. I think it is going to be a problem.
Posted by Stosh on 24 December 2016 - 10:30 PM
Whatever jingles your bells or lightens your load, may the Peace we so often seek be with you and your loved ones.
That means Happy Holidays to the generic crowd...
Merry Christmas to my Christian friends....
Happy Chanukah to my Jewish friends....
A belated Milad un Nabi to my Muslim friends...
A Blessed Kwanzi to my friends who celebrate that holiday...
A genunie well wishing of peace, happiness and good health to those I have missed....
Posted by zuzy on 15 September 2016 - 10:07 AM
Hi all, I know I have been absent for awhile and you probably would like to know what is happening with my son. Since my last post, he has joined a new troop, one which meets on Mondays, has like 60 scouts instead of 15, and he fits right in. There are other sports guys in the troop, they have existing Eagles, a couple who are just 13 and 14, so no excuse why he won't be able to get Eagle at 15. New SM asked him if he could get to know him for couple of months and then he would be happy to give SMC and sign his application.
The first two meetings while son was interviewing troop, SM elbowed my hubby and said "why is he here?, why did his other troop not support his Eagle?!" "He is already jumping in and instructing my young scouts on what to do!" He fits right in, when is he going to join? LOL. Hubby said it was son's decison to make. So two weeks later, son turned in his application to join and he actually goes to meetings after a full day of school, 3 hours of football practice, whip home for 15 minutes and has a smile on his face going and coming home from the meetings. SM said he will give him a SMC sometime in October before basketball starts up. SM would like to see son in action at a clinic they hold for WeBelos in October.
Son did not want to go disputed EBOR route. He wants nothing to do with his old troop and certainly did not want their name on the Eagle certificate. So, he is back in the saddle again and is happy. This troop does a lot of fun things and he wants to go to Boundary waters with them one of these years. He does half 2.5 years left, so he can have lots of fun too.
Thanks for all of your support and advice. All is well all is well
Posted by Cambridgeskip on 06 June 2016 - 03:43 AM
Wasn't allowed to post this till now... we got involved in with your memorial day this year. There are American Girl Scout at the air base at Alconbury and each year they clean up headstones at the American military cemetery just outside Cambridge in advance of Memorial Day. This year we got asked if we would help them out. Photos here.
We weren't allowed to put anything up until now as the local TV news came down to film it and asked us to embago photos until the piece had gone out!
Posted by Beavah on 19 May 2016 - 10:31 AM
The difference is "independent contractors" i.e., free lancers. Your "statement of work" is with the Contractor with whom you have a contract. The people who "come and go" are employees of the Contractor. You don't get to tell the contractor HOW to achieve the statement of work, how many people to hire, what to pay them, etc.
Yah, this is true, eh? It's not what's at issue, though.
The thing we're talkin' about here is who qualifies as an "exempt" employee under da Fair Labor Standards Act. "Exempt" employees are typically what you'd consider a salaried employee, eh? Yeh don't track their hours, yeh don't track their production, and yeh don't pay them overtime. CEOs, VPs, senior managers and such for sure, but there a lot of classifications. As a group these are called Executive, Administrative, and Professionals (EAPs)
Of course, whenever yeh make an exception to a rule, there are those that try to cheat, eh? So da law creates incentives for businesses to try to classify people as white-collar salaried managers to avoid payin' 'em overtime. It's unethical and obnoxious. Fast food and retail "managers" who are really straw bosses are perhaps da ones treated worst by their conglomerates.
Da regulation sort of has three tests for an employee to be exempt. They must be paid a fixed salary, they must have real EAP duties, and they must have a salary above a minimum threshold.
What happens in da real world is that while there are lots of unethical/illegal treatment of straw bosses as exempt employees based on their duties, that's one of those hard things to argue, eh? Yeh have to sue the company, either individually or da Department of Labor has to. So practically speakin' if yeh want folks to obey the law, it's easier to use the bright line of total salary rather than arguing about whether a fellow who "manages" two employees is really an administrator or executive.
Problem is that da salary bright line isn't indexed to inflation, eh? If it were, then it would just go up gradually and yeh wouldn't have this sort of crazy jump to bring it back in line. Actually, da Labor Department's jump this time is really a bit too small. If it had been indexed to inflation all along it would be about $57K now, not $47K. But when yeh let the thing languish for a long time, more and more people get away with cheatin'... and it takes a bigger correction to get things back. Those corrections can hurt and get people upset, eh?
It's a good lesson that every hard $ amount in laws and regulations should be automatically inflation indexed if yeh want it to work right.
Posted by Sentinel947 on 29 January 2016 - 11:32 AM
I gave this SM minute a few months ago, forgot to post it here.
"I hear pretty frequently. "They don't listen to me." Getting people to follow you is pretty hard. So I'm going to share with you my secret. It's a secret that is shared in almost every major world religion, and the best CEO's, sports coaches and other leaders know this secret too.
What is it?
It's servant leadership. If you take care of your people, they will take care of you. If you give them what they need to be their best, they will trust you. When they trust you, they will follow you.
Before you step in front of your team to lead, ask yourself, "Do I serve them? Or do they serve me?""
Posted by Twocubdad on 10 October 2015 - 04:43 PM
Truth: most boys (and many girls, I figure) when they put a stick in a fire at age six are not imagining Seabase or Northern Tier or Philmont or the Jambo main stage. They are imaging they day when they and their buddies can put that stick in the fire without some adult badgering them ... that glorious day when they can walk off into the woods and laugh and play and build their own fort/sanctuary, swim in their favorite hole, and catch their own dinner and maybe be a hero to somebody, and then come home to a proud, trusting family and hang their pack at the end of the bed ready for their next outing. THAT'S WHAT WE OFFER. WHY AREN'T WE MARKETING THE TAR OUT OF IT?
That's the post of the month!
Remember that ad from South Africa Scouts a month or so ago? The one with the boy rescuing the girl from the surf, but at the end the video changes and it turns out the boy is now a grown man, rescuing his daughter using skills he learned as a Scouts? http://aplus.com/a/s...cpr-ad-drowning
Same concept, except with a bunch of college-aged guys sitting around a campfire, joking, laughing, having a good time when a little kid in a Scout uniform walks up and asks, "permission to enter camp?" The older guys all straighten up, quit laughing and answer, "yes, sir!" The Scout asks how their dinner was and one of the older guys respond, somewhat oddly, "It was great. I've never had burgers cooked on a real fire before." The little kid says, "Well, you learned something new. That's what it's all about." The video then changes back and forth and you realize it's an identical group of young boys sitting around the fire, the kid in uniform is actually an adult Scoutmaster who turns to walk away disappearing in the dark and says, "have a good night, I'll be in my campsite if you need me." The boys around the campfire resume laughing as the title fades in, "Lessons for Life. Memories for a Lifetime. Boy Scouts of America."
You can think of dozens of scenarios to communicate the same idea.
Posted by meschen on 14 July 2015 - 05:11 PM
Welcome to the forums.
As an ASM, I would not want to tarnish any opinion of the board. So, talk to them after discussing this with your committee chairman (CC).
Then, request that they follow the guide to advancement -- basically that involves the board sending a note to the scout (copy the parents) as to why you are withholding rank advancement, and what he should do to remedy the situation.
After that, call the SM and explain your decision.
I would not be very harsh about this. The boy doesn't understand the difference between helping out of his own free will vs. being compelled. The board needs to teach him. Explain to him that you missed that detail the first time, and would have not considered that truly helpful. But, maybe there are other ways that didn't involve other people making him that demonstrated his helpfulness. You would like him to think of an example where he helped without being required to do so.
There is absolutly no reason to award the patch to someone who you do not think is a First Class scout.
I disagree. Please recheck guide to advancement 18.104.22.168 and 22.214.171.124. Once a Scout has been called and congratulated by the BoR that he has met the requirements for the rank, he becomes that rank. There are no provisions for take-backs a week later in light of new information.
The matter is properly addressed between the the Scout and his Scoutmaster. It should be addressed as part of his requirement for showing Scout Spirit to earn his Star rank.
Posted by jwest09 on 18 November 2016 - 08:09 PM
Hello fellow scouters! I'm speaking here as a paramedic of 20+ years. I've worked in a variety of settings, mainly on an ambulance in urban environments. I love my job, and credit my involvement in Scouting as a youth with introducing me to this field.
However, I'm continually amazed that the combination of first aid with the BSA always seems to produce armchair lawyers who waaaayyyyy overthink and overcomplicate matters when it comes to rendering the first aid skills which we teach our youngsters. I apologize for my bluntness, but as a long-time paramedic and educator, its become something of a pet peeve to me... but there is a ton of misinformation presented in this thread, and its actually harmful to mislead people in this way.
I could call out each misunderstanding and fallacy communicated here pertaining to Good Samaritan laws, duty to act (or lack thereof), certification vs licensure, "highest level of care," etc etc etc. I'm not going to, unless anyone wants me to. I will reiterate the points which I try to hammer home each time I teach first aid:
1. Above all, keep yourself safe. Traffic accidents are notoriously dangerous, and sadly, each year they claim the lives of professional police, fire and EMS personnel. And we theoretically have training on how to keep ourselves safe, and ample resources to do so. I've personally responded to a few hundred car accidents at this point - they are easily the most dangerous part of my job, and I've had my own close calls. I've had close friends be injured and killed in the line of duty because they were struck by a car while working a traffic accident. Please, please, please, do not put your self at risk. Do not train your Scouts to put themselves at risk. Don't worry about all the legal mumbo-jumbo you don't understand in the first place - if nothing else, please remember to keep yourself safe above all other considerations - even if that means driving away from the scene.
2. Do Your Best to provide first aid that you've been trained for. Don't worry about being sued - seriously, this is quite possibly the absolute most idiotic thing to worry about. Go ahead a use Google or Lexus Nexus or any other search engine to try to find a case where a Good Samaritan was taken to court for rendering basic first aid at an accident scene. You won't find any. So chill out - stop worry about imaginary legal boogeyman, and stop making other worry about these imaginary fantasies! Its irresponsible to continue to spread these myths. We train people - youth and adults - to provide basic first aid because it helps people. So go help people! I can assure you, as long as you are acting in good faith, using common sense, and not exceeding what you've been trained to do, you are in no legal risk. If you disagree with me, please provide concrete references - cite actual laws or actual cases which support your position. Otherwise, please accept that the BSA does not train 10 year olds to perform skills which, if used, could land them in jail. Because that's just hairbrained and I know that you are all smart enough to see through that, if you stop to think about it.
3. Once a professional responder - be it an EMT, police officer, firefighter, etc - arrives on scene, follow their direction. Their #1 job is similar to your #1 job - safety! They need to keep themselves safe, keep you safe, keep other bystanders safe, and finally need to treat any patients on scene. They will do whatever they need to do to accomplish that. Now, most of us have been at this a while, and when we see a Good Samaritan on scene, we will treat you respectfully, and manage the situation positively if you don't immediately take our direction. But, believe me, we will not allow you, ourselves, bystanders, or patients to be placed in any risk, and if that means you need to be removed from the scene, it will happen. Let me address another legal myth that's been presented here - your BSA or Red Cross first aid training does not put you in some kind of legal situation which means that you need to remain with the patient until you're satisfied that a higher level of care has arrived. Even if you are an off-duty EMT, you are not in any kind of legal situation which requires you to remain with a patient if a police officer orders you away. Again, most of us professional responders will continue to accept your help assuming you are not putting anyone in danger - but still, please do not obstruct any of us from doing our job. I hate to see when a good guy who's trying to help, but decided to also try to be an amateur lawyer gets put in the back of squad car for interfering with police/fire/EMS on a scene - but I'd rather see that than see anyone get hurt. So please, do not put yourself in a position where you're trying to be helpful, but are in fact making my job more difficult and less safe - for you and for me!
Regarding the original question that prompted this thread - no, you should not ask someone for ID on an accident scene. Your first aid training carries absolutely no legal status - you're a good guy trying to help someone in need, and so is whoever else is showing up. Please don't train your Scouts to waste time trying to ID people who are likely more experienced.
For those of us who do this every day, its largely a non-issue. I've personally worked thousands of individual 911 calls, hundreds of car accidents. I've worked with bystanders who are doctors, nurses, congressmen, fire chiefs, teachers, EMTs and even Boy Scouts. I've run calls with bystanders and patients who have been drunk, high, hallucinating, armed, combative and just plain old big and scary. If a couple of 11 year olds asked me for ID, 1) I wouldn't show it because I don't carry it with me, nor do I need to, and 2) would handle the situation in a way that the young men would feel proud of themselves for rendering aid to someone in need, and would allow me and other more experienced providers to render aid as well. I think this is true of anyone with even a little experience as a professional responder.
So, long story short, keep it simple. Don't worry about legal mumbo jumbo, 95% of it is made up BS anyway. Focus on your own safety, on rendering care up to your level of training, and being supportive of the professional responders when they arrive on scene. I don't know what it is about the BSA that makes people so prone to overcomplicating this and making up laws designed to ensure that you're thrown in jail for the rest of your life - but that's not how it works, and you should worry about that, and you shouldn't deceive others into worrying about that.