RememberSchiff Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Maybe the third time will work. As you may recall our dauntless duckfoot posted twice this link http://www.fmaynard.com/scouting/archives/2511 which about the BSA policy change towards individual scout accounts: BSA FISCAL POLICIES AND PROCEDURES FOR BSA UNITS. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/fi..._BSA_Units.pdf Specifically page 4 Can my unit credit amounts from fundraising to an individual toward their expenses? "No. The IRS has stated that crediting fundraising amounts constitutes private benefit. However, the unit could use the funds (all or a percentage) raised to reduce or eliminate dues and various registration fees, purchase uniforms and Scouting books, and purchase camping equipment. The unit could also use its funds to provide assistance to individual Scouts in cases of financial hardship." I posted using a different link and sub forum, thinking that might be the problem. If this thread disappears. I will just post the topic again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 It's kinda annoying to have to revive this topic over and over again. If it happens again, I'll be the first to start posting on the system's forum to make sure it is monitored as to why it is disappearing. I'm thinking the topic is of high importance for all units to consider, one way or the other. But it should be carefully evaluated for each unit's situation. Stosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberSchiff Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 The first link http://www.fmaynard.com/scouting/archives/2511 , the Bobwhite Blather blog asks some interesting questions about impact and implementation. I think a big change will occur in high adventure attendance. I think it will be mostly troops and fewer council contingents. I see fewer individual scouts/families using their savings to join a council contingent troop. Hope I'm wrong. My $0.01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I think your backwards on that schiff. you will see more council contingents and fewer troop ones. many troops raise funds as a group for such a trip. The problem is they will no longer be able to do it. Council contingents will grow because those will means will need to band together to go. Bottom line here. I think it will kill troop or pack level fundraising. The current crop of parents are not selfless and when I mentioned this they all said they were done fundraising. One mom who happens to be CM said "I am not fundraising so Johnny scout who didn't sell any popcorn can go to camp or enjoy scouting free". As popcorn Kernel nothing would make me happier. I devote 2 months most of my living room to raising money for council. Pay as ya go. I am good with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberSchiff Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 I think your backwards on that schiff. you will see more council contingents and fewer troop ones. many troops raise funds as a group for such a trip. The problem is they will no longer be able to do it. Council contingents will grow because those will means will need to band together to go. Bottom line here. I think it will kill troop or pack level fundraising. The current crop of parents are not selfless and when I mentioned this they all said they were done fundraising. One mom who happens to be CM said "I am not fundraising so Johnny scout who didn't sell any popcorn can go to camp or enjoy scouting free". As popcorn Kernel nothing would make me happier. I devote 2 months most of my living room to raising money for council. Pay as ya go. I am good with that. I see your point about unit fundraising dying. There has been a small but growing Pay-as-you-go/Thrifty movement in our unit for a number of reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 One mom who happens to be CM said "I am not fundraising so Johnny scout who didn't sell any popcorn can go to camp or enjoy scouting free". Now there's a lesson in parental support for team development and leadership. Such selfishness has no place in Scouting. Stosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pack18Alex Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 When I did the Pack budget, I put subsidies in the events out of the Pack Budget. Our fundraising goes towards capital needs, and $150-$200 per event, so essentially we undercharge for food/registration and eat it from the Pack Budget. The Pack Budget comes 50%-50% from dues and fundraising (up from 100% dues two years ago). One of the leaders asked me about this, didn't understand why we were subsidizing the campouts from the fundraising. I told him that the people working the fundraisers, serving as leaders, and attending the campouts is largely the same people. The boys that go camping are gung-ho for the program. The boys that show up for a weekly meeting are having fun, but it's not a core focus of their week. When I keep the costs down, we have better attendance. More attendance means more Scouts retain. Are there families that camp and don't fundraise... I guess, one or two. Are there families that fundraise and don't camp? Yeah, one or two. But in general, it's the same group. We have some families that can't pay dues, we ask that they participate in fundraisers and we'll take care of them via campership. We don't use Scout Accounts, we tried, it was a tracking nightmare and didn't seem to serve much purpose. But I have a weird demographic. 80% of my kids are upper-middle class, a good chunk are in private religious schooling. Our food costs have to be managed VERY carefully (kosher food gets expensive REAL fast if you don't economize). It's easier to carry the families that can't pay than to do complicated Scout Accounts. Also, the boys seem gung ho for prizes. They aren't gung ho to save their parents $50 on dues or summer camp. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberSchiff Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 It's kinda annoying to have to revive this topic over and over again. If it happens again, I'll be the first to start posting on the system's forum to make sure it is monitored as to why it is disappearing. I'm thinking the topic is of high importance for all units to consider, one way or the other. But it should be carefully evaluated for each unit's situation. Stosh I have made calls to my Council and they know nothing about this. I would think distribution of this policy paper would have a High Priority. Clearly, if a unit continues with Individual Scout Accounts and gets their CO in trouble with the IRS, neither will get any help from National. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I think your backwards on that schiff. you will see more council contingents and fewer troop ones. many troops raise funds as a group for such a trip. The problem is they will no longer be able to do it. Council contingents will grow because those will means will need to band together to go. Bottom line here. I think it will kill troop or pack level fundraising. The current crop of parents are not selfless and when I mentioned this they all said they were done fundraising. One mom who happens to be CM said "I am not fundraising so Johnny scout who didn't sell any popcorn can go to camp or enjoy scouting free". As popcorn Kernel nothing would make me happier. I devote 2 months most of my living room to raising money for council. Pay as ya go. I am good with that. Our crew has been pay-as-you-go since its inception. This effectively caused me to miss Jambo since our HA had cost overruns and there was no cushion in the crew treasury. My family bore the biggest share. I'm fine with that. If the youth want to do something different, we will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 One mom who happens to be CM said "I am not fundraising so Johnny scout who didn't sell any popcorn can go to camp or enjoy scouting free". Now there's a lesson in parental support for team development and leadership. Such selfishness has no place in Scouting. Stosh The other thing wrong with that picture is who's doing the work "I am not fundraising ..." She didn't say, "My little billy is not ..." Betcha she didn't even ask Billy if he would be fine fundraising for Johnny scout as well as himself. I've been on outings and overheard youth saying "If only ____ were here, this would be so much more fun!" So, it is possible that by supporting someone else's involvement, you actually "purchase" a better experience for your child. But it's a vision that best starts with the youth, and my impression is that Packs have a harder time with this than troops simply because adults aren't forced (through Boards of Review and such) to listen to the youth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scouter99 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I frankly find the idea that these and other topics are disappearing by accident highly suspect. I'm not typing my full response a third time for Smoking Man to delete again. So, in 5 words: The problem is selfish adults. Archive this forum and install SMF. It's free, it works, maintenance is done by a development team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walk in the woods Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 One mom who happens to be CM said "I am not fundraising so Johnny scout who didn't sell any popcorn can go to camp or enjoy scouting free". Now there's a lesson in parental support for team development and leadership. Such selfishness has no place in Scouting. Stosh I suppose there are two levels of selfishness there. One, the parent who doesn't fundraise but expects program and two the parent who no longer wants to subsidize parent one. I suppose you'd have to argue that neither have a place, no? Nobody wants to be on a team with a non-contributor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred johnson Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I frankly find the idea that these and other topics are disappearing by accident highly suspect. I'm not typing my full response a third time for Smoking Man to delete again. So, in 5 words: The problem is selfish adults. Archive this forum and install SMF. It's free, it works, maintenance is done by a development team. What is SMF? What do you mean by "archive this forum?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred johnson Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I must admit too that I'm sort of miffed the previous discussions threads disappeared. Is it a web site bug or censorship? I'd like to understand what happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomerscout Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 It's kinda annoying to have to revive this topic over and over again. If it happens again, I'll be the first to start posting on the system's forum to make sure it is monitored as to why it is disappearing. I'm thinking the topic is of high importance for all units to consider, one way or the other. But it should be carefully evaluated for each unit's situation. Stosh what's to evaluate? You either choose to follow the law, or you don't. ISAs are not allowed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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